Well..what if yer pulling your beef off at rare...130-ish all the while being soaked in yardbird juice at the same temp?
I am NOT convinced.
I am NOT convinced.
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RE: USDA Response on cooking chicken
- Thread starter richtee
- Start date
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bigsteve
Master of the Pit
Won't the surface of a piece of beef be at the grate temperature? Likely 225 or higher. The Chicken is Pasteurized at 170*
Maybe. Maybe there's a fold in the hunk of beef full of 135° yardbird drippings...
bman62526
Smoking Fanatic
Right....the surface of the meat below the chicken will be at smoker temp.
OF course, I guess you couldtheorize that if bird drippings soaked into the meat BEFORE the brisket surface got up to temp (like right when you first throw the meat on) then its theoretically possible that contaminated drippings have touched the top of your beef.
However, we all know that a few drops of liquid aren't somehow making it to the middle of your beef cut. I mean, think about marinating overnight, or even for 16 hours or so...and how that marinade BARELY makes it past the surface of the meat!
I'd say if you had 1,000 people put a bird in a smoker that's up to temp, on top of a roast or brisket - 1,000 meals come out fine and no one is sick.
That's just my opinion!! It is based on logic, not 100% fool-proof scientific fact. But I have other things to worry about more than drippings.
OF course, I guess you couldtheorize that if bird drippings soaked into the meat BEFORE the brisket surface got up to temp (like right when you first throw the meat on) then its theoretically possible that contaminated drippings have touched the top of your beef.
However, we all know that a few drops of liquid aren't somehow making it to the middle of your beef cut. I mean, think about marinating overnight, or even for 16 hours or so...and how that marinade BARELY makes it past the surface of the meat!
I'd say if you had 1,000 people put a bird in a smoker that's up to temp, on top of a roast or brisket - 1,000 meals come out fine and no one is sick.
That's just my opinion!! It is based on logic, not 100% fool-proof scientific fact. But I have other things to worry about more than drippings.
bigsteve
Master of the Pit
Well, we all have to determine our own comfort levels.
Years ago, Doctors said you couldn't get VD and other nasty diseases from sitting on a toilet seat. But if you think I'm not going to line the seat in the john at McDonalds, you're nuts.
Years ago, Doctors said you couldn't get VD and other nasty diseases from sitting on a toilet seat. But if you think I'm not going to line the seat in the john at McDonalds, you're nuts.
bman62526
Smoking Fanatic
HA!!!! So THAT's how I got that disease?!?
:-)
just kidding!!!
:-)
just kidding!!!
True. But I'm always gonna err on the side of caution, and do something as simple as keep my poultry on the bottom rack, and go to 170°.
I could not live with myself if I took out my 90 year old grandmother because of a minor "bug". I probably would make it... as I firmly believe we don't eat enough "dirt" anymore... but those of us with reduced ability to deal with such stuff- I'm not risking it.
I could not live with myself if I took out my 90 year old grandmother because of a minor "bug". I probably would make it... as I firmly believe we don't eat enough "dirt" anymore... but those of us with reduced ability to deal with such stuff- I'm not risking it.
This is correct. The response was assuming that you were cooking everything to over 160 degrees.
If you were cooking beef to 130 or something like that I would in no way cook chicken over the beef.
I also agree with Richtee that I am not going to take this chance with anyone that eats my Q. Just my opinion.
If you were cooking beef to 130 or something like that I would in no way cook chicken over the beef.
I also agree with Richtee that I am not going to take this chance with anyone that eats my Q. Just my opinion.
I have to agree there...all the hand sanitizers and germophobes are helping to insure that we raise generation after generation of kids with pathetic immune systems so the drug companies can "come to the rescue" and cure what ails you!
Don't get me wrong, proper hygiene is important....but, kids need some germs and dirt here and there so their immune system "learns" how to defend their body...
Just my $.02
Eric
Don't get me wrong, proper hygiene is important....but, kids need some germs and dirt here and there so their immune system "learns" how to defend their body...
Just my $.02
Eric
I applaud you bmudd, Administrator, for a job well done!
You have defied the Holy Grail of BBQ with facts, logic and wisdom, THANK YOU, for doing your job, I'm certain the ripple will be felt across all the other bbq sites on the web as well!
I too agree with the other posters that we don't we eat enought "dirt," or at least you guys don't, and hygiene, common sense and caution is important.
Gene
You have defied the Holy Grail of BBQ with facts, logic and wisdom, THANK YOU, for doing your job, I'm certain the ripple will be felt across all the other bbq sites on the web as well!
I too agree with the other posters that we don't we eat enought "dirt," or at least you guys don't, and hygiene, common sense and caution is important.
Gene
ok i agree lets just be safe poultry on bottom like i said befor E.R. is lots of dollars
Seems simple enough. Why chance it??
Dave
Not on the sites I frequent. The problems are OBVIOUS to me, and fly in the face of your aforementioned logic and facts.
THINK, man (woman?)... assume poultry contaminated. Do some research on that. Then tell me where your rare beef will be.
THINK, man (woman?)... assume poultry contaminated. Do some research on that. Then tell me where your rare beef will be.
I think the compliment is to bmudd for taking the time to research this. I agree that I'll still put the chicken on the bottom.
Let's all stay friendly here.
Let's all stay friendly here.
- Dec 6, 2007
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and I also will keep poultry on the bottom-thanks Brian-and yes all or at least most bbq sites out there agree with chicken on the bottom.
I don't think Rich is being unfriendly. I think he is just trying to point out the fact that poultry is assumed to be contaminated.
And given the the USDA's response . . .
which implies that both the chicken AND the beef will be cooked thoroughly, it is probably STILL best to put the chicken below the beef or anything else for that matter.
Dave
And given the the USDA's response . . .
which implies that both the chicken AND the beef will be cooked thoroughly, it is probably STILL best to put the chicken below the beef or anything else for that matter.
Dave
Very early in my smoking Richtee pointed this out to me. I have practiced not putting anything under poultry in my smoker ever since. If everthing was taken to sound internal temp would it make a dif. Well the surface of beef dripped on by bird that is usually put on later since it cooks faster could be a problem and I for one will not chance it. Thanks Rich for the early warning.
Still poultry on the bottom rack for me too.
No worries on my end. It just sounded like it had a tone to it. No harm no foul. I'm out.
Not at all trying to be "unfriendly" But AM trying to be emphatic. An aquaintance called the USDA on this today and got some ying-yang who had no clue what they were saying, and asked for a supervisor for a call back.
OK...I said my say. I won't say my conscience is clear, however. Hence this post here. Carry on.
OK...I said my say. I won't say my conscience is clear, however. Hence this post here. Carry on.
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