RE: USDA Response on cooking chicken

Discussion in 'Poultry' started by richtee, Jun 30, 2009.

  1. richtee

    richtee Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Well..what if yer pulling your beef off at rare...130-ish all the while being soaked in yardbird juice at the same temp?

    I am NOT convinced.
  2. bigsteve

    bigsteve Master of the Pit

    Won't the surface of a piece of beef be at the grate temperature? Likely 225 or higher. The Chicken is Pasteurized at 170*
  3. richtee

    richtee Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Maybe. Maybe there's a fold in the hunk of beef full of 135° yardbird drippings... [​IMG]
  4. bman62526

    bman62526 Smoking Fanatic

    Right....the surface of the meat below the chicken will be at smoker temp.

    OF course, I guess you couldtheorize that if bird drippings soaked into the meat BEFORE the brisket surface got up to temp (like right when you first throw the meat on) then its theoretically possible that contaminated drippings have touched the top of your beef.

    However, we all know that a few drops of liquid aren't somehow making it to the middle of your beef cut. I mean, think about marinating overnight, or even for 16 hours or so...and how that marinade BARELY makes it past the surface of the meat!

    I'd say if you had 1,000 people put a bird in a smoker that's up to temp, on top of a roast or brisket - 1,000 meals come out fine and no one is sick.

    That's just my opinion!! It is based on logic, not 100% fool-proof scientific fact. But I have other things to worry about more than drippings. [​IMG]
  5. bigsteve

    bigsteve Master of the Pit

    Well, we all have to determine our own comfort levels.

    Years ago, Doctors said you couldn't get VD and other nasty diseases from sitting on a toilet seat. But if you think I'm not going to line the seat in the john at McDonalds, you're nuts.
  6. bman62526

    bman62526 Smoking Fanatic

    HA!!!! So THAT's how I got that disease?!?


    just kidding!!!
  7. richtee

    richtee Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    True. But I'm always gonna err on the side of caution, and do something as simple as keep my poultry on the bottom rack, and go to 170°.

    I could not live with myself if I took out my 90 year old grandmother because of a minor "bug". I probably would make it... as I firmly believe we don't eat enough "dirt" anymore... but those of us with reduced ability to deal with such stuff- I'm not risking it.
  8. bmudd14474

    bmudd14474 Smoking Guru Staff Member Administrator Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    This is correct. The response was assuming that you were cooking everything to over 160 degrees.

    If you were cooking beef to 130 or something like that I would in no way cook chicken over the beef.

    I also agree with Richtee that I am not going to take this chance with anyone that eats my Q. Just my opinion.
  9. earache_my_eye

    earache_my_eye Smoking Fanatic OTBS Member

    I have to agree there...all the hand sanitizers and germophobes are helping to insure that we raise generation after generation of kids with pathetic immune systems so the drug companies can "come to the rescue" and cure what ails you!

    Don't get me wrong, proper hygiene is important....but, kids need some germs and dirt here and there so their immune system "learns" how to defend their body...[​IMG]

    Just my $.02
  10. justpassingthru

    justpassingthru Smoking Fanatic OTBS Member

    I applaud you bmudd, Administrator, for a job well done!

    You have defied the Holy Grail of BBQ with facts, logic and wisdom, THANK YOU, for doing your job, I'm certain the ripple will be felt across all the other bbq sites on the web as well!

    I too agree with the other posters that we don't we eat enought "dirt," or at least you guys don't, and hygiene, common sense and caution is important.

  11. morkdach

    morkdach Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    ok i agree lets just be safe poultry on bottom like i said befor E.R. is lots of dollars[​IMG]
  12. ddave

    ddave Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member



    Seems simple enough. Why chance it??

  13. richtee

    richtee Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Not on the sites I frequent. The problems are OBVIOUS to me, and fly in the face of your aforementioned logic and facts.

    THINK, man (woman?)... assume poultry contaminated. Do some research on that. Then tell me where your rare beef will be.
  14. the dude abides

    the dude abides Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    I think the compliment is to bmudd for taking the time to research this. I agree that I'll still put the chicken on the bottom.

    Let's all stay friendly here.
  15. desertlites

    desertlites Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    and I also will keep poultry on the bottom-thanks Brian-and yes all or at least most bbq sites out there agree with chicken on the bottom.
  16. ddave

    ddave Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I don't think Rich is being unfriendly. I think he is just trying to point out the fact that poultry is assumed to be contaminated.

    And given the the USDA's response . . .

    which implies that both the chicken AND the beef will be cooked thoroughly, it is probably STILL best to put the chicken below the beef or anything else for that matter.

  17. shooterrick

    shooterrick Master of the Pit Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Very early in my smoking Richtee pointed this out to me. I have practiced not putting anything under poultry in my smoker ever since. If everthing was taken to sound internal temp would it make a dif. Well the surface of beef dripped on by bird that is usually put on later since it cooks faster could be a problem and I for one will not chance it. Thanks Rich for the early warning.
  18. rickw

    rickw Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Still poultry on the bottom rack for me too.
  19. the dude abides

    the dude abides Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    No worries on my end. It just sounded like it had a tone to it. No harm no foul. I'm out.
  20. richtee

    richtee Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Not at all trying to be "unfriendly" But AM trying to be emphatic. An aquaintance called the USDA on this today and got some ying-yang who had no clue what they were saying, and asked for a supervisor for a call back.

    OK...I said my say. I won't say my conscience is clear, however. Hence this post here. Carry on.

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