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MES popping ground fault outlet - Page 3

post #41 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by martok View Post
 

Hey Bear, just wanted to let you know that I did mount the temp probe below the second shelf where you suggested.  I am really liking this accurate temp control for a change, no more giant temp swings like before!  Now I hope my cooking is as good (or better) than before. 

 

My total cost, not including PID which i already had, was around $80 for the element and the probe.

 

Tom

 

 

Sounds Great !!!

 

Can't wait to see your results!!

 

Bear

post #42 of 57

Hello all. New here. I'm having a similar problem with a Masterbuilt smoker tripping a GFI and stumbled upon this thread. Only difference is my smoker is brand new and it's tripping when I'm just trying to do the initial "seasoning run." I am completely clueless when it comes to electrical so bare with me. I first had it plugged into an outlet and after about 20 minutes or so (had heated up to about 225 or so) and it tripped the button on a GFI outlet about 30 feet from the outlet I had this plugged into (on the inside of the back porch). Reset it and it tripped again after a few minutes. I moved it to the other side of the back of the house where my only other outdoor electrical outlet is. That is a GFI and when plugged into that it immediately trips it. Whereas the other outlet would run a bit before tripping a GFI downline a couple outlets. Any thoughts? Like I said it's a brand new just out of the box smoker.

post #43 of 57
Thread Starter 

Welcome to the forum!  Lots and lots of good info and help located here.

 

I think you just answered your own question.  In your post, you said that "about 30 feet from the outlet", which to me says that you are using a long extension cord.  If you are and it is a normal light duty variety cord, that's more than likely the cause.  If you had the smoker plugged directly into the outlet with no extension cord, then it is probably another issue.  I believe the  users manual states that you should not use an extension cord.

 

Did you use an extension?

 

Tom

post #44 of 57

First off welcome to SMF and were glad to have you aboard..... just a start.....Try using the smoker somewhere else with another power source with enough amperage supply to the outlet and see if you have the same problem. Are you using an extension cord?

post #45 of 57
Thanks for the response. I wasn't using an extension cord. I guess I worded that a little confusing! It was plugged directly into an outlet outside an enclosed back porch. On the inside of said porch there are 3 additional outlets, one of which is GFI. That's the one that eventually tripped. I guess all the other outlets are in line with that one? I then tried moving it to the the other side of the house in that back where my only other outdoor receptacle is and this is GFI and that one trips immediately.

So trips immediately when plugged directly into a GFI and will run a bit and trip another GfI after a little while when plugged into a non GFI. Hopefully this is a more clear explanation.
post #46 of 57

you need more amps. What is your breaker rating. Is it 15, 20, 30

post #47 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by martok View Post
 

Welcome to the forum!  Lots and lots of good info and help located here.

 

I think you just answered your own question.  In your post, you said that "about 30 feet from the outlet", which to me says that you are using a long extension cord.  If you are and it is a normal light duty variety cord, that's more than likely the cause.  If you had the smoker plugged directly into the outlet with no extension cord, then it is probably another issue.  I believe the  users manual states that you should not use an extension cord.

 

Did you use an extension?

 

Tom

 

I don't think it is an extension cord issue. Extension cord itself cannot normally trip the ground circuit. It is probably a faulty equipment issue, and it can be dangerous.

 

If you have a Multi-meter (can be $5.00) or one of those neon light tester ($2.00?), you can immediately find out if the metal enclosure has an electrical leak to the ground. If so, do not use the unit, do not even plug it in an outlet, return the unit. 

 

At this point, wear rubber gloves and rubber shoes if you have to touch the unit and the unit is plugged in an outlet, no matter whether it is on or off.

 

Good luck.

 

dcarch

post #48 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarch View Post
 

 

I don't think it is an extension cord issue. Extension cord itself cannot normally trip the ground circuit. It is probably a faulty equipment issue, and it can be dangerous.

 

If you have a Multi-meter (can be $5.00) or one of those neon light tester ($2.00?), you can immediately find out if the metal enclosure has an electrical leak to the ground. If so, do not use the unit, do not even plug it in an outlet, return the unit. 

 

At this point, wear rubber gloves and rubber shoes if you have to touch the unit and the unit is plugged in an outlet, no matter whether it is on or off.

 

Good luck.

 

dcarch

 

whoa there.....   Lets find out whats wrong before making a decision......  GFI's will trip due to long extension chords

 

The GFI has a sensor inside that detects changes in current to the appliance that is connected to it (such as a toaster or blow dryer) by comparing the current flow to the appliance and the current flow from the appliance. If there is a potentially dangerous drop off in the current, then the GFI turns off all power by tripping a relay within it in less than one second. If a GFI turns off your appliance then you will need to unplug it, press the reset button and everything should be back to normal. A GFI outlet has two buttons:a test button and a reset button.

If a problem persists or you think something may be wrong with the electrical system in your home, then make sure to call an experienced electrician. If there is a serious problem with the affected circuit and the GFI will not reset, this is a sure sign to call an electrician to help diagnose the problem. In short: GFI outlets turn the power off before a shock can occur so you wont get shocked.

post #49 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by boykjo View Post
 

 

whoa there.....   Lets find out whats wrong before making a decision......  GFI's will trip due to long extension chords

 

The GFI has a sensor inside that detects changes in current to the appliance that is connected to it (such as a toaster or blow dryer) by comparing the current flow to the appliance and the current flow from the appliance. If there is a potentially dangerous drop off in the current, then the GFI turns off all power by tripping a relay within it in less than one second. If a GFI turns off your appliance then you will need to unplug it, press the reset button and everything should be back to normal. A GFI outlet has two buttons:a test button and a reset button.

If a problem persists or you think something may be wrong with the electrical system in your home, then make sure to call an experienced electrician. If there is a serious problem with the affected circuit and the GFI will not reset, this is a sure sign to call an electrician to help diagnose the problem. In short: GFI outlets turn the power off before a shock can occur so you wont get shocked.

 

I would not say I am the expert on this topic. Far from it, I am no more than a weekend tinkerer. Just thinking out loud here, and trying to learn something.

 

I can be wrong about this. Assuming the extension cord is good, itself is not leaking to the ground wire. And an electrical device is plugged into it, wouldn’t the incoming and outgoing current always be equal and balanced by definition, no matter how long the cord is? Therefore can it cause the tripping of the DFCI outlet?

 

Perhaps the following conditions can cause a good extension cord to trip the GFCI outlet, may be more, I am not sure:

 

1. An electrical storm can induce electric charges in anything conductive, including a long extension cord.

 

2. The electrical device plugged in has inside an inductive load (motor, transformer, etc)  that can backflow an magnetically induced current during start up and shutting off of the coils.

 

3. The electrical device has inside an capacitive load (induction motor start capacitor, etc)  that can backflow stored electric current during start up and shutting off of the capacitor. Those who have done video work knows there can be enough power left in the fly-back transformer to kill you even the unit it totally unplugged from the outlet.

 

4. The heating element can generate a magnetic field and induces electric current in metallic objects near it similar to a transformer. or an induction cook top.

 

5. Someone in the area is using Walkie-Talkies. You are not allowed to transmit near a blasting zone, for instance. I wonder about those wireless thermometers. If the wave length of transmission is a multiple of the extension cord length, 1/4 wave, 1/2 wave, full wave, etc. a weak current or "Standing Wave" can be induced by resonance because the cord will act as an antenna. All you need is a few milli-amps to trip a GFCI outlet.

 

 

In any case, it is very important to be safe. Wear rubber gloves and rubber shoes and have the equipment thoroughly tested. Never play with electric power unless you are absolutely experienced in what you are doing. Never try something new because you just saw a DIY video on youtube.

 

dcarch


Edited by dcarch - 9/30/13 at 6:32am
post #50 of 57

Over on another MES thread, some users were reporting getting shocked by their smokers. So you should consider that there is a possible short in the smoker, even if it is new. Also, while GFCIs have been known to go bad and trip for no particular reason, I would suspect the smoker.

 

Take a toaster oven, or electric skillet if you have one and plug it (or both) into the outlets you have been using.  Fire it up and see what happens.  I would put water in the skillet just to give the heat somewhere to go.  Alternately, if you have a high amp appliance (120v) that is close to the MES amp, plug that in.  If nothing trips, call MES.  But be safe.  Wearing rubber gloves and boots as dcarch mentioned is of paramount importance.

 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/148695/mes-shocking-me

 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/109307/masterbuilt-40-shocks

 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/146121/new-style-mes-shocking

post #51 of 57
Thanks for the input so far. I'll have to try some of the suggestions when I get a chance. A co-worker in my departments husband is an electrician so I'm gonna have her run it by him and see what he thinks as well.

Also if it helps this is the cheaper analog version and not digital. It seems pretty simple and doesn't appear to really have much if any wiring on the inside. Just the heating element and then the plug/controller that plugs in on the outside.
post #52 of 57

It really doesn't matter whether it is digital or analog.  A problem is a problem. I sincerely hope it is not with your home wiring system.  Good luck.

post #53 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by old sarge View Post
 

------------------------  A problem is a problem. I sincerely hope it is not with your home wiring system.  Good luck.

For that you can get a little circuit tester. I think Dave showed it in one of the threads Old sarge linked above.

 

It is a little plug-in thing that will show you if your house wiring is proper. The tester thing is about $5.00 from HD or Radio Shack.

 

dcarch

post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtav2002 View Post

Thanks for the input so far. I'll have to try some of the suggestions when I get a chance. A co-worker in my departments husband is an electrician so I'm gonna have her run it by him and see what he thinks as well.

Also if it helps this is the cheaper analog version and not digital. It seems pretty simple and doesn't appear to really have much if any wiring on the inside. Just the heating element and then the plug/controller that plugs in on the outside.

 

Carbon is a very good electrical conductor. Unplug the unit and check to see if you have some carbon built-up around electrical components.

 

dcarch

post #55 of 57
Jtav, I had a similar problem early on. Not as early as you but still early on. You can check out a message I posted here http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/147519/masterbuilt-qa-issues/20#post_1055434 . Mine started tripping after two smokes (total runtime 13-15 hours). It was frustrating to say the least. I was able to locate and rectify the issue. Please let me know if this helps.
post #56 of 57

My 2 year old MES 30" (Model 20070312) just started popping it's GFCI circuit (as soon as I would hear the relay snap on). I tried other GFCI sockets but no luck. I currently (hee-hee) have it plugged into a non-GFCI socket. It started up and is working as normal. I set to run at 250 degrees for an hour. It reached temp in 15 minutes hovering between 259 and 245 according to the sensor. I'll let it run the full hour with the vent wide opens to liberate any moisture inside and will leave the door full open to cool and let the moisture escape. Once it is cool I will try it on a GCFI again and report the results. 15 more minutes to go on the timer...


Edited by Jerry Park - 11/24/15 at 1:47pm
post #57 of 57

Well, It ran at 250 for a full hour without a hitch. I turned it off and opened the door let it cool to ambient temp (about 55 deg). Plugged it back into a GFCI socket and it tripped at just under 70 degrees. Any accumulated moisture inside should have cooked off during the high temp run. It seems to work just fine if it is not on a GFCI protected circuit. I have checked the socket with one of those circuit testers and it is wired correctly. My smoker is new enough that it has the access panel in the back. I might test the circuits at a later date.


Edited by Jerry Park - 11/24/15 at 1:58pm
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