Guess I can throw the whole 1.5 hrs per pound rule out the window

Discussion in 'UDS Builds' started by cromag, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. cromag

    cromag Smoking Fanatic

    This is my third smoke on my UDS and my meat hit the foil point and get finished fast. I put a 10 lb brisket (before trimming) and a 10 lb picnic (before trimming) on the UDS at 3:30 am I have already foiled and hit 175 on the brisket and 168 on the picnic.. That's only 7 hours at 240-250 degrees.. I'm sure it'll be done well before the 12-14 hr mark. This happens every time I smoke something on the drum. Any ideas?? Am I picking meat that is too lean and cooks faster??
     
  2. rbranstner

    rbranstner Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    How thin is the meat? If you are working with a thin brisket or a flat only it will get done pretty fast. I think my first flat only brisket was done in 5.5 hours in my UDS. But when I am doing a full packer it is usually around the 1.5 hours per lb. I will let you know as I am doing a brisket today.

    Thickness, fat content and smoker temp are some of the variables that will determine how long it will take the meat to get done. Its done when its done I guess.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  3. cromag

    cromag Smoking Fanatic

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Does the brisket look burnt?
     
  4. rbranstner

    rbranstner Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    What does the inside look like? Any sliced shots? Was it nice and juicy? Where are you measuring your temps from in your UDS? I notice that when I am monitoring the temps it is always hotter in  the middle of the barrel then on the outside of the barrel. So if you have an analog probe or a digital one more to the outside of the barrel it might actually be 25 degrees hotter in the center especially in the begining of the smoke until the fire spreads throughout the whole basket. Just a thought. You might be cooking hotter than you think. I have two analog probes on the outside of my UDS and the one has about a 6" stem and the other one has about a 3" stem and they always read over 20 degrees different. 
     
  5. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    I'd like to see the inside, before I would say it's burnt.

    In the pics, that last one looks dry. Did you add any liquid to the foiled package?

    I don't know much about a UDS---Can't you hold 225˚ to 230˚ (not that it would mean that much)?

    I'm spoiled with my MES 40.

    Bear
     
  6. cromag

    cromag Smoking Fanatic

    Guess I should get a small metal thermo and have it sitting in the middle of the grate
     
  7. rdknb

    rdknb Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I agree with above, with out seeing sliced pics I can not say burnt.  It may just be bark which to me I love.  I also wasy double check temps and drop them to 225.
     
  8. cromag

    cromag Smoking Fanatic

    The brisket just reached temp and is now in the cooler, the picnic is still 189 (foiled) and was juicy when I added some spray at foiling. My drum has been holding 245 all night I can get it to hold 225 if that's the temps I need to start cooking with.
     
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  9. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    As for the UDS temp, I would listen to guys like Ross (rbranstner) more than a "watt" guy like me.

    I use 225˚ to 230˚ in my MES for butts, chuckies, briskets, etc.

    Bear
     
  10. rbranstner

    rbranstner Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Get a digital thermometer and put it in there. The ET-732 is awesome. Dual probe and wireless so you are covered. I use both of the probes to monitor the smoker temp for a few hours and you can really see the hot and cold spots in the smoker if you move them around especially as the smoker is coming up to temp and the fire is spreading through the basket. Ideally I like to run my UDS for around an hour before I put meat on to make sure that the whole basket is lit and the hot and cold spots are to a minimum. More times than not I never seem to get an hour before the meat goes on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  11. cromag

    cromag Smoking Fanatic

    Guests arrive at 4 so now the picnic has hit the cooler.. Hope they don't mind eating soon after they get here. [​IMG]

    I'll take pics when shredded and sliced
     
  12. porked

    porked Smoking Fanatic

    I agree with all of the above, I think you're running hotter than you think.
     
  13. cromag

    cromag Smoking Fanatic


    The thing is the meat is always done and moist
     
  14. rbranstner

    rbranstner Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    If its wrapped in foil then towels in the cooler it will stay warm for hours. You should be fine.
     
  15. porked

    porked Smoking Fanatic

    I never used a UDS, I use an offset and normally my briskets, butts and shoulders take 10-12 hours at 225 degrees. I try to stay as close to 225 as I can. I usually use 8 -10 lb. packages of meat. Has always pretty much been the same for me.
     
  16. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

    Yea it sure seems awful fast to me too. I keep my WSM around 220-225. I like the longer cook time. If it comes out tender & juicy at a higher temp & shorter time then it sounds ok to me. I am really looking forward to the sliced shots, cause that bark looks awesome.
     
  17. forluvofsmoke

    forluvofsmoke Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    The 1.5 hrs/lb is just a basic guideline, and is for lower temps than the 240-250* range you speak of. 225* is the typical shamber temp used by most, giving a good compromise between a truer low & slow cooking and getting surface and internal meat temps through the danger zone, in most cases. If bulkier cuts of meats are being smoked after using prep methods which rendered them as non-intact whole muscle meats, then, a higher chamber temp may be in order to get internal temps above 140* in 4 hours. Otherwise, 225* will give the best overall results for natural tenderization of the meat, especially when cooking to higher finished temps.

    Smoke chamber temps and the resulting grate-level temps will change dramtically with vertical smokers when meats are loaded on the grates. I've noticed this with every vertical smoker I've used: My original GOSM gasser, and with a charcoal conversion, my Smoke Vault 24 gasser, and my Brinkamnn Gourmet charcoal. If you have only one garte level in use, it makes things a bit simpler to control temps, but when you begin adding meat to multiple grate levels, the meat on lower grates can deflect heat out and around the meat on the next grate above it, which in turn increases cooking time, but can also create a high temp flow on the edges of the meat as well, which translates to un-even cooking. If a baffle or water pan is not in place above the fire, then the meat on the lowest grate level will catch most of the heat, while anything above it gets the baffled heat which travels upwards towards the side of the smoke chamber. If a baffle or water pan is in place over the fire, then, the baffle effect is already taking place before the heat reaches the first cooking grate. It's a balancing act of sorts which requires the proper spacing between the baffle and lowest cooking grate and spacing between the additional cooking grates in succession above the lowest grate. Depending on the over height of the smoke chamber from baffle to top, I find my most evenly dispersed heat using a single cooking grate to be at the center of the chamber. But there again, as soon as I load more grates, the flows will change and result in grate temp variations. I have an arsenal of 10 oven grate thems and 6 long-stem analog therms which I've used in the past to make this discovery.

    I'm not a UDS user, but the principles are the same. With a UDS, you're dealing with highly reduced flows through the smoke chamber for the purpose of fire/temp control and the resulting increased fuel efficiency. This also can cause changes in the convection process of cooking. With higher flows, lower chamber temps are needed to achieve the same resulting cooking times, as faster moving air will transfer more thermal energy to the food than slower nearly stagnent air. My theory on the darker coloring of the crust shown in your pictures is that with the higher chamber temps, the sugars (if any) in your dry rub have carmelized earlier than might be noticed in my gourmet charcoal or any of my gassers due to higher flows in the smoke chamber.

    The dark coloring of the bark has alot to do with the charcoal fired smoker in general. My gassers don't give a very dark colored bark unless I run higher than normal chamber temps, or use higher than normal amounts of sugar-containing ingredients in my dry rubs. While I don't yet know the exact scientific process behind the charcoal vs gas, I do know I can achieve a much deeper and usually darker smoke ring with charcoal than with gas.

    Hope I didn't confuse you here...just a small part of what I've learned about the craft of smoking.

    A second look at the pictures tells me that you've porbably gotten some sugar carmelization along with some rendered fat charring with the rub...I would be inclined to say that your chamber temps are far too high for brisket and butts. I'd be finding a way to get accurate measurement and take it from there.

    Don't fret, 'cause learning how every new rig likes to run is the key. Once you find out what keeps your smoker happy, you meat will look better as well. And don't forget, high sugar rubs on long smokes will carmelize and eventually burn. On ribs, CRS and other smaller cuts, sugars are fine, but for the long smokes, beware.

    Eric
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  18. cromag

    cromag Smoking Fanatic


    Thank you
     
  19. cromag

    cromag Smoking Fanatic

    baby backs are on now and at 4:45 it's picture taking time.. My wife asked why I insist on taking photos after every smoke.. I'm just a proud parent I told her and she called me a jack ass [​IMG]
     
  20. forluvofsmoke

    forluvofsmoke Smoking Guru OTBS Member


    Way to keep the smoker busy!

    Your wife will get accustomed to the camera eventually. My kids ask me if I took all the pictutes I wanted to get before they start eating...it's become a tradition of sorts, and we all have fun with it.

    I'll await the finale' on this one!

    Eric
     

Share This Page