what am i doing wrong, issues with texture

Discussion in 'Sausage' started by nogoer, Feb 29, 2012.

  1. nogoer

    nogoer Meat Mopper

    just made a batch of english bangers based on Ryteks recipe and altered to be beef and pork. they cooked up great, didnt explode and were firm and tasted just fine. However they werea little dry and crumbly. i have been having majors issues with this problem and am about to get out of the sausage game. whats funny is when i first started making sausage i made batch after batch of kielbasa and italian with no problems, now i cant to save my life.

    recipe was....

    1 cup water

    2lbs beef

    2lbs pork butt

    1lb pork fat

    1/4 cup breadcrumbs

    seasonings

    i gently mixed it up and then split it in half to use my kitchen aid for 2 minutes to bind. Then remixed by hand for a minute to merge the split parts. i let it settle and an hour later stuffed it all. Nothing fancy, nothing crazy just a straight up sausage, but yet another recent batch that wasnt quite right. Sausage making is supposed to be somewhat easy so where am i going wrong?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. boykjo

    boykjo Sausage maker Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member

    IMHO bread crumbs and too much water..... you cooked and rendered out the fat and were left with bread crumb sausage....Next time add 1/4 cup water and omit the bread crumbs and grind with a course plate, 3/16 and see what happens...  fridge overnight then add another 1/4 cup of water before stuffing to loosen the meat....

    Joe
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2012
  3. wicked1

    wicked1 Fire Starter

    I use breadcrumbs in my recipe,  Maybe try just pork, beef maybe to lean.  I also would use 1/2c powdered milk.  Sounds like right amount of liquid to me.  I think it is a fat issue.  Or could be overcooked.
     
  4. nogoer

    nogoer Meat Mopper

    thinking back i may had always used the medium plate where as lately ive been using fine.  Breadcrumbs are an ingredient for the style, all banger recipes should have them. the beef had a little fat and the pork was normal 20%. Then the extra lb fat put me at least in the 25%or more, could that be an issue? What effect could too much water have? I have always used a cup per 5lbs.

    Thanks for the help
     
  5. werdwolf

    werdwolf Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    Don't abandon ship yet.

    I have not made bangers yet or any sausage with bread crumbs, so I may be of little help. 

    The amount of fat should be fine.

    I don't think I would use the fine plate.

    How are you ultimately cooking them?  If you are smoking them what temps are you cooking at and to what internal temp?
     
  6. pops6927

    pops6927 Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    You won't have a good banger without a minimum of 30% fat, just the way it is!  From your pic, they look way too lean and would definitely be dry.
     
  7. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Dry and crumbly sausage is sometimes caused by not enough salt and/or not mixing the meat and spices long enough to develop a good bind of the proteins. the meat mix has to be very sticky after mixing. A handful in the palm of your hand will stay in place when turned upside down.
    Low fat content could do it too but sounds like you got enough to me. Cooking can cause a similar issue but you didn't mention your method so can't comment on that at the moment.
     
  8. thoseguys26

    thoseguys26 Master of the Pit

    WHoa, SMF won't let you give up! I'm a noob on this forum but not a noob for the lifestyle.  Tell us about your cooking process. Your cooking process is almost as equally important as your ingredients. Give us some details so we can help. size, temp, time, smoke?, etc and you'll never consider to say give up again!!

    Come on, I dare you to challenge this forum!
     
  9. slownlow

    slownlow Smoking Fanatic

    I'll throw my 2 cents in with the pros.   It was easier before and now your are having problems.....  Have you tested your thermo lately in boiling water....  Maybe it's gone bad / wrong reading.
     
  10. English Bangers are usually a fresh sausage, you would think the problem would be in the cooking, but hard to say
     
  11. nepas

    nepas Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator Group Lead OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    I would cut back on the beef and fat, add more pork to what you cut back on. Use distilled water and kosher salt. Grind thru the medium plate
     
  12. africanmeat

    africanmeat Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    All my bangers recipe i got it is to 1 lb meat 6 oz fat  my friend is doing great bangers (yummy ones)

    it is for 1 lb meat

    50% pork

    50% beef 

    6oz fat

    1 egg 

    fresh white bread chopped +- 5 slices he is using a challah 

    and your  favorite spices 

    salt, pepper ,mace,thyme........

    hope it will help 

    (sheep casing )
     
  13. I think it is possible you over worked the meat, or it got to warm while you were mixing the meat,

    meat should be mixed as little as possible and as cold as possible, even the temperature of your hands can start to render fat
     
  14. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Hey Nogoer, here's what you should do. Go to this site, http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewforum.php?f=13 and ask the same question there...The reason I suggest this is that this forum is based in the UK and they know how to make a banger. If you do go there, let us know what they say if you would please.

    PS: they are all good peeps and a few of use are members there
     
  15. 2/3rds pork (pork shoulder)

    1/3rd back fat

    20g breadcrumbs

    water as needed

    Spices

    salt

    white pepper

    nutmeg

    mace

    coriander

    grind once with medium plate, add spices - breadcrombs - water mix by had for a minuet the regrind with medium or fine plate (your choice) rest overnight in fridge. Cooking:- fring pan -- little oil to coat bottom, use a low to medium heat - place snorkers in and do not prick - turn every few minuets will take about 7 - 9 minuets to cook 

    HTH
     
  16. nogoer

    nogoer Meat Mopper

    My cooking method is basically what Brican said. I just gently fried them in a pan until they were brown and delicious looking. None of them split, although there was quite a bit of fat that rendered out anyway. I probably did cook them too long, but i like to cook the snot of of bangers til thier crispy then put moisture back in by slathering them with gravy. Store bought bangers i cook the same way but they aren't crumbly. They are emulsified though so i doubt they could get crumbly even with a blowtorch burning them.

    As far as mixing, well i have thought this has been my problem with every bad texture batch. In the past i just mixed it by hand and it was always fine. This time i went medieval on it and mixed in the stand mixer for 2 minutes. The bind looked great and things were nice and sticky. Maybe all my whoes are simply from using the fine plate? My last two batches have been this exact recipe, well except for the beef this time. My last batch prior was very crumbly and dry and was hand mixed whereas this batch was mixer mixed and was a lot better. Next time im going to use the medium plate and mix for 3 minutes.

    My test fry after mixing was spot on. Nice and moist and tasty so i thought i was good to go until i fried up the stuffed batch. I would think that frying a tiny sample free form patty would render way more fat out that pan frying a link so im not sure how the sample was perfect but the links were dry.

    Thanks guys for the help and support, sausage is my second most favorite food and hobby and i would hate to give up from discouragement. In case you're wondering, bacon is my first favorite food(which is much easier to make) and homebrewing is my first favorite hobby!
     
  17. diesel

    diesel Smoking Fanatic

    I think Big Casino may have nailed it.  Make sure everything is really cold, almost frozen.  Then when you add the water make sure it is Ice cold.  I sometimes mix Ice in with the meat when I grind.  The water will come out of the mix either when cooking or when resting in fridge.  Just from my experience sausage gets that texture you described when the fat separates which is caused when the mixture get too warm. 

    Just my 2 cents.

    Let us know who it turns out. 
     
  18. chefrob

    chefrob Master of the Pit OTBS Member

    az
    this sounds "spot on"..........
     
     
  19. gersus

    gersus Smoking Fanatic

    I can't help you with your crumbly problem but man, you guys are making me hungry!!!

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Dry milk powder or protein concentrate as a binder could also help .. But lots of great ideas have been put forward ..

    Sausage making sites online or maybe a local butcher will have the above items .. And the amount used per pound will be on the sites also

    Skim milk powder is a bit large .. If you use it instead of the milk powder , give it a whirl in the old food processor to make it a fine powder .. Will act like the egg that was suggested .. But keeping the mix cold and getting it a bit sticky are also big factors ..


    Ross
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012

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