MES tripping GFCI

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So you're saying after heating it awhile, then you plugged it back into the GFCI and it did not short anymore.  Hmmmm

Mine is having this issue this morning and I need to get a turkey into it ASAP.  :(
Was thinking maybe there was some residue that got burnt off with a few hours at 275 deg, getting rid of the short/ground condition.

All I know is it worked for me this time

And this was after I checked things out with a meter and couldn't find anything wrong

Good luck

Fred
 
 
Was thinking maybe there was some residue that got burnt off with a few hours at 275 deg, getting rid of the short/ground condition.

All I know is it worked for me this time

And this was after I checked things out with a meter and couldn't find anything wrong

Good luck

Fred
Thanks!  I'll see what happens when I'm done smoking today.  So far it's working great on a regular outlet but I have to plug it into my inside outlet so the door is slightly open.
 
Contacted MB and they said it's probably the element.  I bought a new one from them for $14.  Will install soon and report back.
 
 
Thanks!  I'll see what happens when I'm done smoking today.  So far it's working great on a regular outlet but I have to plug it into my inside outlet so the door is slightly open.
Shoot, for $14 I might go ahead and replace mine.

Fred
 
So I made the mistake of unscrewing the ground wire before pulling it out.  There are a series of nuts on the end of the screw that are gone I think they fell into the wall of the smoker.  I'm afraid these will cause ground faults or burning in the future.  So I think I'm done with this one.  Time to get a new one.
 
she said when it's just popping the outlet immediately before it's even turned on, it's the case, not the heating element.  so it couldn't have been fixed by that anyway.  Luckily that was only $14.

She was able to get me a 20070115 for retail cost, plus shipping.  YMMV.
 
Long story short I have two gen 2 40" masterbuilts. I gave one to my brother and he gave it back recently because they weren't using it enough, only two or three times in a year or two. It worked last time he used it but when I plugged it in it heated until about 175 and then started tripping the gfi. After that every time I plugged it in it would immediately trip the gfi. I took it to a non-gfi circuit yesterday and it turned on and heated up to 275 and held there. I didn't get a chance to try it on the gfi circuit again yet but just because it trips instantaneously doesn't mean it won't come up to temp on a non-gfi circuit.
 
Hey everyone. Lots of good information here. I had the same problem with outlets tripping so plugged into a normal (living room) outlet. It appears to be heating up fine and not throwing any breakers. My question, and apologies if it's already been answered, if it's the outlet do I replace the outside outlet on the deck or the inside outlet with the switch which for some reason is in the basement?

Or did I entirely misunderstand this thread and it's the MES?

Thanks as always for all the great advice!
 
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The three prongs on a North American power plug are hot, neutral and ground. The ground is the round center plug and is tied, back at your circuit breaker box, to the same incoming wire as the neutral wire.

The neutral wire carries current back from the load (in this case, your MES smoker) and so, when things are working right, it carries the exact same current as the hot wire. The ground wire should carry no current and is there to provide an extra measure of safety, but only for those appliances that use it (many do not). When it was first added to electrical installations, back in the 1960s, appliance makers would tie it to the metal chassis or cage containing the appliance, and if the insulation inside that cage ever broke down and caused a short, the current would flow back through the ground wire, rather than through you (if you happened to be touching the appliance).

I have never been clear as to whether this actually improved safety much because it takes so little current to kill you. You will notice that many devices still use just two-pronged plugs.

The GFI was introduced a decade later in order to provide a LOT more safety, especially in damp locations, such as outdoors, your kitchen, and your bathroom. In those cases, you can be standing on a damp floor in your bare feet, and any electricity that manages to get to the surface of an appliance will flow through your body down to your feet because the ground has the same electrical potential as the neutral and ground wires on your plug, and the electricity is just as happy taking that path as it is going back through the wires.

The GFI measures the current coming in from the hot wire and the current flowing back out through the neutral wire. In normal operation, they should be the same. If the return current is less, that is happening because some of the current has found another path to ground.

In the case of the MES, it is my belief, from reading a lot of posts about this problem, that the GFI gets tripped either from moisture that has gotten into one of the two electrical boxes (most likely the one on the bottom), or there is some insulation that has broken down, probably around the heating element. Because the whole box is sheet metal (covered with vinyl on the outside), there are lots of places that might conduct electricity, if there is a problem.

Therefore, you might very well have an electrical hazard.

If you know how to use a multi-meter, there are tests you can take to determine if you have a problem. However, if you don't already know how to do this, I don't think I should describe it, because there are some hazards involved.

GFI plugs DO go bad: I've had to replace almost half a dozen over the past thirty years. When they go bad, they will trip even though there is not a problem.

To determine if you have a bad GFI, all you have to do is find another GFI-equipped plug and plug your MES into that. Since you won't be running it for more than five seconds, you can even use a GFI inside your house. If it trips several of them, then you do indeed have a ground fault in your MES, and you need to fix the problem. I would perform the test on as many GFI outlets as you can find, at least 3-4. If it trips them all, then you know, with certainty, that your MES is defective. Because it is a safety hazard, Masterbuilt should replace the unit, because otherwise they will have liability. I would call them, tell them how you have tested it, and make sure to mention the word "liability."

If you want to first try fixing it yourself, my main suspicion is moisture. I suspect that moisture runs down the cord and into the hole in the back, and you should start with that assumption and see if you can tip the MES so that water can drain out. You can take further steps to try to dry out any box that you think might have received water from that power cord opening.
 
Thanks John. I tried another GFI inside the kitchen and it tripped too. That one never trips when we have the coffee maker, tea maker, mixer, etc. all potentially plugged in and drawing power. The living room which is not GFI didn't trip and the MES ran up to 250° no problem, which confused me if it's the MES. We did have some bad storms a few weeks ago and I have not used it since then so moisture might be an issue. I'll tip it and see if anything comes out.

I also plugged our electric griddle into the outside GFI. Turned up to 400° and it stayed on.
 
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Had the same problem crop up after a year and some. Read the posts played around with it, As with you all looked good. No Joy. Called MB, the young lady said no problem, sent me a new heat coil set up. Installed it and have been smoking for three or four months now with no problems. Twenty bucks or so if I remember correctly.

MikeG
 
Interesting Mike. Did the old coil have any corrosion on it? I pulled the small plate off the back and noticed one side has what looked like rust or dirt that had run down the back. The MES is sitting on the stand and it's too hot outside to take it apart and mess around anymore today.

John, I have a multimeter and am comfortable using it so feel free to chime in with things to test.
http://s901.photobucket.com/user/un...4-42ED-A4E0-B8E071BFEEEA_zpszmlv43df.jpg.html
 
This thread has been incredibly informative.

I settled in for a smoke this morning and found immediately upon plugging into the wall that the GFCI would trip.  After about 30 minutes of trying to get the power back on in the garage (took me far too long to figure out there were two GFCIs on the same breaker and the second one was hidden behind the refrigerator).  I then spent the next hour hauling the MES around to various other outlets and watch the GFCIs pop on those as well.  

I had just used it last weekend and did get a bit of rain during that day.  The MES did not quit running on me that day and continued until I manually shut it off which was about four hours after it had stopped raining.

Opened up the plate in the back to examine the element connections and none of them appeared to have any corrosion (though I have to admit that there was a lot of gasket tucked in there and between that and the heat shrink on the wires I probably didn't give it as thorough of an inspection as was required).  Still no luck.

I had pretty much given up when it occurred to me that the recommendations were actually to try on a circuit that had no GFCI downstream (as an aside, I read online that these outlets that have downstream GFCI are supposed to be labelled, mine are not).  So I ran an extension cord into the house and plugged into my living room.  Sure enough the unit powered on and I was able to heat it up.  Based on another post in the thread, I cranked it up to 275 to see if I could "cook out" the moisture.  After about 90 minutes I unplugged from the extension cord and into the GFCI that had previously been popping.  Unit powered on and all appears to be well.

I'm still confused about a few things that's I'll have to do further testing on:

1.  Is it the heating element that was shorting if my unit would trip immediately upon plugging in?

2.  Is the unit working now because it is already hot and if I attempt to plug it in when it's cold will the short have returned?

3.  How much of a hazard did I create in those 90 minutes where I was running unprotected?  Probably pretty irresponsible of me to get that going and then leave it unsupervised.  I never left the house but I wasn't keeping an eye on it the whole time.
 
That gunk in your pic is exactly the kind of thing that could provide a little leakage to ground. The GFI is very sensitive and it only takes a small amount of current to trip it. Clean off that gunk, and anything else you see that looks like that.
 
Time to replace the element, too much resistance will cause the GFCI to trip.

The circuits you are using, especially the kitchen, may have different current ratings. ie; 15A or 20A (kitchen). 14ga. or 12ga wire respectively. Unless someone who doesn't know what they are doing has replaced the receptacle, an easy way to identify if it's a 15A or 20A circuit is the 20A receptacle has an extra line on the neutral blade. Looks like a "T" sideways. The neutral line is always the wide blade. Some devices only use a polarized plug because they are "Double insulated" meaning that the exterior case is insulated from any electrically charged portion of the device.

Quite often the exterior 15A receptacles are at the end of the circuit, causing a voltage drop simply due to the length of copper from the breaker panel to the receptacle. If a GFCI receptacle is tripping due to being at the end of a long circuit run, one trick that sometimes works is to replace the GFCI receptacle with a standard 2 w/ground receptacle and replace the breaker in the panel with a GFCI breaker. Unless you are confident in your electrical skills, don't remove the breaker panel inspection cover.

Ron
 
I don't have time tonight to read this thread - I am only commenting on what grabbed my eye - Post # 138.

Renron -    I'm sorry, but 90% of your info in post #138 is false.

"too much resistance will cause the GFCI to trip".  False- current imbalance is what trips a GFI.

"an easy way to identify if it's a 15A or 20A circuit is the 20A receptacle has an extra line on the neutral blade. Looks like a "T" sideways". - Part true - Yes, a 20 a rated recept has the t slot, BUT not only is it not mandated by code on a 20a ckt,(unless it is a SINGLE recept on the ckt) but very few res kitchens in US have 20a recepts installed, even though they are 20a ckts.

I wired new and remodel homes for 13 yrs as a licensed contractor, VERY rarely did we put them in kitchens, only when architect spec'd,  never did an Inspector say anything.

But they are a good idea , typically made more solid, longer lasting than the relatively inexpensive basic 15a ones.

"Quite often the exterior 15A receptacles are at the end of the circuit, causing a voltage drop simply due to the length of copper from the breaker panel to the receptacle. If a GFCI receptacle is tripping due to being at the end of a long circuit run, one trick that sometimes works is to replace the GFCI receptacle with a standard 2 w/ground receptacle and replace the breaker in the panel with a GFCI breaker."   -

The ONLY true part here is that there is lower voltage the farther down the ckt....although in a normal home totally negligible...BUT-  the rest is false.

Sorry, I'm not a jerk, but this is misleading incorrect info.

      Marc 
 
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I don't have time tonight to read this thread - I am only commenting on what grabbed my eye - Post # 138.

Renron -    I'm sorry, but 90% of your info in post #138 is false.

"too much resistance will cause the GFCI to trip".  False- current imbalance is what trips a GFI.

"an easy way to identify if it's a 15A or 20A circuit is the 20A receptacle has an extra line on the neutral blade. Looks like a "T" sideways". - Part true - Yes, a 20 a rated recept has the t slot, BUT not only is it not mandated by code on a 20a ckt,(unless it is a SINGLE recept on the ckt) but very few res kitchens in US have 20a recepts installed, even though they are 20a ckts.

I wired new and remodel homes for 13 yrs as a licensed contractor, VERY rarely did we put them in kitchens, only when architect spec'd,  never did an Inspector say anything.

But they are a good idea , typically made more solid, longer lasting than the relatively inexpensive basic 15a ones.

"Quite often the exterior 15A receptacles are at the end of the circuit, causing a voltage drop simply due to the length of copper from the breaker panel to the receptacle. If a GFCI receptacle is tripping due to being at the end of a long circuit run, one trick that sometimes works is to replace the GFCI receptacle with a standard 2 w/ground receptacle and replace the breaker in the panel with a GFCI breaker."   -

The ONLY true part here is that there is lower voltage the farther down the ckt....although in a normal home totally negligible...BUT-  the rest is false.

Sorry, I'm not a jerk, but this is misleading incorrect info.

      Marc 
Marc is 100% correct. I am a Licensed State Electrical Contractor and Master Electrician for 40 yrs. The gfci outlet I use on my smoker also sometimes trips when it has been damp outside. I can attribute that to the controller or wiring on the MES perhaps being a little damp causing the GFCI to do exactly what it was designed to do. It will stay on about 3-4 min enough to get a little warm and then it will trip, I can then rest it and it will usually stay on from then on out. My thought is if I kept the unit inside when not in use this would solve the problem. In the summertime as long as it is warm and hot no problem.  Just my 2 cents on this from my experience.

HT
 
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