Help please

[mtorts]

Hey guys I made my annual patch of Italian salami last night (100lb) it is all seasoned and mixed ready to be stuffed today. The problem is that while being very sleep deprived I accidentally used cure 1 instead of cure2. This sausage does not get smoked it dries for a few months. My question is what do I do now. Should I still add the 4oz of cured 2?? Is there any danger to doing this. Will it make my sausage a lot more salty.

 

[flagg]

I am new to this, so others will know more. Cure 1 is sodium nitrite at 6.25% per pound of salt. Cure 2 is sodium nitrite at 6.25% and sodium nitrate at 4% in 1 pound of salt. If you add cure 2 now, you will double your nitrites.

 

[mtorts]

Ya that's what I figured. I actually just called the butcher shop they said to leave it as is and it should be fine. Still worries me though

 

[flagg]

I don't really understand it yet, but I think the addition of nitrates acts as an extended release so salami, ham, etc can be aged long term. Not to say your butcher is wrong, but I would get a second opinion. I may be overlooking something, but you should err to side of caution. Botulism is nothing to play with, and it's growth in food is retarded to safe levels by using cures correctly.

 

[wolfman1955]

I am no pro but I do believe any meat with just cure 1 has to be cooked. 

 

[mowin]

I'd PM cheff jimmy if he doesn't pop in.

 

[atomicsmoke]

What kind of casings are you using or better yet...how long do you estimate the drying will be? For small hog casing I would just go ahead and hang to dry if I were you.

I tried to research the nitrate to nitrite conversion before. Could not find much on it. What I concluded is that the process is based on many variables and there is no guarantee you will have a proper conversion in any situation: bacterial presence and activity, meat moisture content, drying room temp and humidity.

If you are really concerned about botulism and add cure#2 you will end up with around 300ppm of nitrite. Keep in mind some injection curing recipes posted here end with 600pm nitrite level in meat. So, while not desirable 300 is not the end of the world. As for too salty: your cure#2 addition will give you aprox 0.225% more salt. That won't make the sausage inedible.

P.s. never mind the question...I just saw your drying time: "a few months". Is this fermented sausage?

 

[tropics]

I just checked Rytek Kutas book and if you use cure #1 it should be smoked cure #2 is for dry aging Hope this helps

Richie

If you smoke it you know you will be safe.

 

[daveomak]

Below is a source for pure sodium nitrate...   4 oz. for $11 delivered....     Leave the meat refrigerated and order it...     That will only add 10 cents per pound of meat to the cost......

Some cure #2 has 3.6% nitrate...  so, to get that proper rate into your sausage, follow these steps...

Will someone please check my math on this...

4 oz. of cure per 100 #'s at 3.5% nitrate is.....   4 oz. = 113 grams of cure...  at 3.5% nitrate, that would have been 4 grams of sodium nitrate in the 4 oz. of the cure you put in...     If you have a meat mixer that holds say 10# of meat that you can mix well, dissolve the 4 grams of pure sodium nitrate in 1500 grams of distilled water...  Then mix in 150 grams (150 mls) of the nitrate water in each 10 # batch...  That will get you the correct amount of nitrate in the 100#s of sausage meat...  while adding 3% moisture to the meat...  Try and disperse the water uniformly over the meat while mixing and mix THOROUGHLY...   Then you can stuff per normal...  allow for the extra moisture while drying the sausage...

 

[mtorts]

So basically I have 4g of sodium nitrite In right now and my goal is to have 8g in total. Does the additional 4g have to be dissolved in water or is that just to ensure even distribution??

 

[tjmitche]

No,  

Per Mr. Omak you need to add "Sodium Nitrate" not more sodium "nitrite".  This addition will basically get you to a cure #2 mix.  

The water add is to allow a more even distribution in the meat.

Correct me if I'm wrong Dave.

 

[mtorts]

Oops I meant sodium nitrate

 

[daveomak]

TJ IS RIGHT ON.....     The water is to insure uniform distribution throughout the meat  ...

You have 4 OUNCES of cure #1 in the meat...  which is, at 6.25% nitrite, is 7.1 grams of nitrite...   You need to add 4 grams of sodium nitrate to make a cure #2 mix.....

As a note....  different manufacturers add different amounts of nitrate to their cure #2...    I don't know why...  BUT, evidently there are no standards for the nitrate addition like there is nitrite in pink salt...

Order a grams scale that is 0--100 grams range...    about $10.....  .

 

[atomicsmoke]

Wow. I didn't now they still sell this stuff pure. Homeland missed it?

 

[mtorts]

I already have a scale and I will order the nitrate. Thanks so much u guys are a huge help

 

[mtorts]

Special thanks to you Dave well appreciated cheers

 

[daveomak]

As a side note AGAIN !!!!    Darned if I can think of everything.....    Leave the meat uncovered while it sits in the refer, while you are waiting for the nitrate to arrive AND while you wait for your NEW grams scale....    You need it....  Doing the refer thing will dehydrate the meat a bit so it isn't so wet when you add the additional water...

  I have no idea how you will weigh 4 grams of nitrate if you don't have a grams scale......  UNLESS you reload your own ammo....    Then 15.42 grains equals one gram and you will need ~62 grains added...

 

[LanceR]

With an advanced apology if I'm wrong....

First, the advice of you local butcher seems way off.  I suggest you ignore it.  I don't see this as an issue of potentially having too much nitrite in the salami.  As nitrites break down rapidly with time they just won't be there in meaningful quantity when you are ready to consume the sausage.  The nitrates in any Cure #2 you add won't be there either, certainly not in quantities high enough to matter.

Choosing between Cure #1 and Cure #2 is not a matter of whether something is smoked or not.  It's a matter of how long it will be held in the 40-140 degree danger zone

Cure #1 which contains 6.25% of sodium nitrite is used for products that will be held in the 40-140 degree danger zone (as in being cold smoked at low temperature before cooking) for only a short time.

Cure #2 has the same 6.25% of sodium nitrite and also contains 4% sodium nitrate. The sodium nitrite provides short term protection and the nitrate provides long term protection for products held in the danger zone for long periods.  Cure #2 acts as a kind of time release capsule in that the nitrate reacts with natural bacteria to release nitrites over time.  Nitrites dissipate pretty quickly so constant replenishment is needed until the good bacteria do their thing and keep the bad bacteria suppressed.  That's why don't see it an issue of too much nitrite at all.  It's also why I think your butcher's advice is mistaken.

If you add the 4 oz of Cure #2 now you will add about 3-1/2 ounces of salt, 1/2 oz of sodium nitrate and 1/6 oz of sodium nitrate.  Given that the nitrate from the Cure #1 will dissipate quickly I don't see any harm coming from adding the Cure #2, mixing well and proceeding as if you jsut hit the mixing stage of your recipe. 

I'll leave any thoughts as to whether that initial overdose will affect the good bacteria needed to convert the nitrate to nitrite to Chef JJ or another person better versed than I am.

Again, I apologize it I'm incorrect and will gladly edit or delete the post as needed. 

Lance

 

[daveomak]

Lance, morning.....   Did you read all the posts about this situation.....

 

[LanceR]

Hello Dave.  I didn't notice 9remember) the part in the first post about the concern over added salt.  Also, I drafted my response a few hours back and hadn't seen all the updates.  I'm headed into town for the rest of the afternoon and evening.  I'll check back later tonight and amend as needed.

Lance