chef k-dude
Meat Mopper
Full disclosure, I am not a pro-smoker. The following is opinion from my own experience.
I use an MES 30 and have few problems with smoke. The only time I have an issue is in the middle of the hottest part of the summer when outdoor temps keep the box from dropping temp enough to regularly switch the heating element on.
I would suspect you have a technical problem with the box like a bad element, bad thermostat or something like that (this is responding to the very first post; since then, this thread has taken on a life of its own).
Some things I’ve learned:
1- The MES directions tell you to damper the box or close the vent to nearly completely closed. I’ve been around the track here with people regarding “vent open/vent closed” discussion and I have determined for my personal use that there IS NO fixed answer to that question for all circumstances.
What I have learned is the vent can be your friend based on the outdoor conditions. More closed for very cold or windy conditions, more open for calm and /or hot conditions.
Restricting the vent in cold or windy weather saves on chips by keeping the smoke in the box longer for each amount of chips loaded, it also helps keep the box temp up which slows the rate of the element cycling, saving energy and chips both. The downside is with not as much airflow, your meat will be moist, yes, but any bark may be moist too, so running the box open on higher temp for a while right at the end of a smoke is a way to exit some box moisture and let the exterior of your product dry a little…if that’s what you are looking for, like with a pork butt where you want that gnarly bark.
Opening the vent more in summer heat and humidity is logical because the hot ambient air temp will make the element cycle less and there is already enough moisture in the air being drawing in to the box to keep your meat moist. Opening the vent draws more air which in the heat of summer is needed to exchange enough air for the element to cycle on enough to get enough smoke. But that cycle won’t be too much because again, the air outside is hot and if the box is in the sun, that will make the box maintain 225 for example, much easier, thus moderating the cycle.
You have to retain heat and smoke in cold and wind, and you need escape heat, in order to create smoke (with an electric element) in the heat and humidity of summer…like here in Virginia.
This knowledge has allowed me to better smoke with the MES almost all year long, save maybe January/February and Late July through August when it’s just no fun anyway ‘cause it’s cold as Siberia or African hot. Neither is fun, that’s why I smoke enough stuff to freeze.
2-Don’t soak your wood chips. That’s it, and all I need to say about that…except… I’ve stopped doing it after a couple years of research and actually reading instructions of stuff rather than ask an old fart…well OK, I’m kinda old…but I still suggest that the makers of products want you to like them, so Masterbuilt and wood chip sellers have a vested interest in giving you good info…and they’ve probably field tested that info, often in controlled studies rather than Bubba 1 and Bubba 2 who swear by back country knowledge. Use Bubba’s knowledge too, he does know a lot…but also with instructions, and tweak it all for your own exact situation. Everybody’s situation is not exactly the same.
3-I have read plenty that tell you that after a certain time, meat stops taking on smoke by a certain percentage. After a few hours of smoking the meat, in the case of rugged meats like pork and beef, the meat begins to actually resist taking on smoke deep in to the tissue, so most of the smoke after that point is surface accumulated. Some of that flavor IS transferred to the rest of the meat, especially through surface contact and mixing with fluids used to toss the pulled meat with, like mop sauce. Many smoking chefs sprinkle a bit of a sauce and toss all the meat and bark together which distributes the smoky flavor and gets some moisture and flavor redistributed through the product after pulling or chopping. I use this method. I am not a competition smoker so I don’t care what the pros or critics say is “proper”, I do what I like…like cooking ribs till they nearly fall off the bone. I have never had a consumer of ribs anywhere in my life ever say “these ribs are good, but I wish they weren’t falling off the bone” or “this pulled pork is good but I wish they hadn’t moistened it with a splash of finishing sauce”…those are comments you will likely only hear from BBQ/Smoking judges.
Back to the point…after a certain point, more smoke is gratuitous and I do believe there is a point of too much smoke on some foods. You want to taste the product, not just smoke. But, keep in mind I am talking about an MES smoker here, most professional smoking chefs laugh when you say you are smoking meat with one of these. They are often using hand crafted or pro-grade setups and in some cases actually need more smoke over time than an engineered tight box with a controlled accurate environment. The MES is a Harry Homeowner or small food shop piece of gear, so some of the age old approaches may not always apply. If you slack off on a butt smoke after 4 hours with an MES and miss a couple hours with no re-load of chips, it’s not the end of the world, and the bark will still grow just from the moisture leaving the surface whether there is smoke around it or not. You will not likely get that ¾” deep pink ring many pros get, but my food is as good or better than most I have bought and I rarely get BBQ or ribs anywhere that totally blow away what I make in my little MES.
*So, I see a lot of mention of the AMNS which I assume is the A-Maze-N pellet tray or tubes. Having no need of such a thing for hot smoking because of the long post of information I just wrote, I see these as a way to cold smoke and overnight smoke or smoke without attention to loading wood. I haven’t cold smoked yet…but someday man…someday I will get there. Having a life filled with other stuff gets in the way of doing everything I want to do.
I can see why people want to smoke overnight…and also sleep…but like not trusting a skinny chef, I expect a pit master to have those circles under the eyes from sleep deprivation! Many people are trying to have a get together and smoke the meat for it, and have it ready by noon or at least afternoon…and I can understand wanting to be awake to enjoy it. My personal experience is, I have never truly relaxed and enjoyed hosting anything. My job is everyone else’s comfort and my satisfaction is their happiness. Therefore I stopped hosting so much and putting so much on my shoulders!
Otherwise, I smoke meats while doing other stuff around the house, so loading chips every 45 minutes is not killing me. And I simply get up really early to get a smoke started, and with an MES, that is fast. I also don’t buy butts the size of my upper torso that take 20 hours to finish.
I bought a variety box of wood chips last year, and in that box was a free version of something that looks like the A-Maze-N tray. And now I have misplaced it! I’ll be cleaning the garage a bit later on, if I find it I’ll post a pic of it. I had forgotten about it until I popped in to this thread. I think that company sells pellets or dust or something too. I’ll report back if I find it.
I use an MES 30 and have few problems with smoke. The only time I have an issue is in the middle of the hottest part of the summer when outdoor temps keep the box from dropping temp enough to regularly switch the heating element on.
I would suspect you have a technical problem with the box like a bad element, bad thermostat or something like that (this is responding to the very first post; since then, this thread has taken on a life of its own).
Some things I’ve learned:
1- The MES directions tell you to damper the box or close the vent to nearly completely closed. I’ve been around the track here with people regarding “vent open/vent closed” discussion and I have determined for my personal use that there IS NO fixed answer to that question for all circumstances.
What I have learned is the vent can be your friend based on the outdoor conditions. More closed for very cold or windy conditions, more open for calm and /or hot conditions.
Restricting the vent in cold or windy weather saves on chips by keeping the smoke in the box longer for each amount of chips loaded, it also helps keep the box temp up which slows the rate of the element cycling, saving energy and chips both. The downside is with not as much airflow, your meat will be moist, yes, but any bark may be moist too, so running the box open on higher temp for a while right at the end of a smoke is a way to exit some box moisture and let the exterior of your product dry a little…if that’s what you are looking for, like with a pork butt where you want that gnarly bark.
Opening the vent more in summer heat and humidity is logical because the hot ambient air temp will make the element cycle less and there is already enough moisture in the air being drawing in to the box to keep your meat moist. Opening the vent draws more air which in the heat of summer is needed to exchange enough air for the element to cycle on enough to get enough smoke. But that cycle won’t be too much because again, the air outside is hot and if the box is in the sun, that will make the box maintain 225 for example, much easier, thus moderating the cycle.
You have to retain heat and smoke in cold and wind, and you need escape heat, in order to create smoke (with an electric element) in the heat and humidity of summer…like here in Virginia.
This knowledge has allowed me to better smoke with the MES almost all year long, save maybe January/February and Late July through August when it’s just no fun anyway ‘cause it’s cold as Siberia or African hot. Neither is fun, that’s why I smoke enough stuff to freeze.
2-Don’t soak your wood chips. That’s it, and all I need to say about that…except… I’ve stopped doing it after a couple years of research and actually reading instructions of stuff rather than ask an old fart…well OK, I’m kinda old…but I still suggest that the makers of products want you to like them, so Masterbuilt and wood chip sellers have a vested interest in giving you good info…and they’ve probably field tested that info, often in controlled studies rather than Bubba 1 and Bubba 2 who swear by back country knowledge. Use Bubba’s knowledge too, he does know a lot…but also with instructions, and tweak it all for your own exact situation. Everybody’s situation is not exactly the same.
3-I have read plenty that tell you that after a certain time, meat stops taking on smoke by a certain percentage. After a few hours of smoking the meat, in the case of rugged meats like pork and beef, the meat begins to actually resist taking on smoke deep in to the tissue, so most of the smoke after that point is surface accumulated. Some of that flavor IS transferred to the rest of the meat, especially through surface contact and mixing with fluids used to toss the pulled meat with, like mop sauce. Many smoking chefs sprinkle a bit of a sauce and toss all the meat and bark together which distributes the smoky flavor and gets some moisture and flavor redistributed through the product after pulling or chopping. I use this method. I am not a competition smoker so I don’t care what the pros or critics say is “proper”, I do what I like…like cooking ribs till they nearly fall off the bone. I have never had a consumer of ribs anywhere in my life ever say “these ribs are good, but I wish they weren’t falling off the bone” or “this pulled pork is good but I wish they hadn’t moistened it with a splash of finishing sauce”…those are comments you will likely only hear from BBQ/Smoking judges.
Back to the point…after a certain point, more smoke is gratuitous and I do believe there is a point of too much smoke on some foods. You want to taste the product, not just smoke. But, keep in mind I am talking about an MES smoker here, most professional smoking chefs laugh when you say you are smoking meat with one of these. They are often using hand crafted or pro-grade setups and in some cases actually need more smoke over time than an engineered tight box with a controlled accurate environment. The MES is a Harry Homeowner or small food shop piece of gear, so some of the age old approaches may not always apply. If you slack off on a butt smoke after 4 hours with an MES and miss a couple hours with no re-load of chips, it’s not the end of the world, and the bark will still grow just from the moisture leaving the surface whether there is smoke around it or not. You will not likely get that ¾” deep pink ring many pros get, but my food is as good or better than most I have bought and I rarely get BBQ or ribs anywhere that totally blow away what I make in my little MES.
*So, I see a lot of mention of the AMNS which I assume is the A-Maze-N pellet tray or tubes. Having no need of such a thing for hot smoking because of the long post of information I just wrote, I see these as a way to cold smoke and overnight smoke or smoke without attention to loading wood. I haven’t cold smoked yet…but someday man…someday I will get there. Having a life filled with other stuff gets in the way of doing everything I want to do.
I can see why people want to smoke overnight…and also sleep…but like not trusting a skinny chef, I expect a pit master to have those circles under the eyes from sleep deprivation! Many people are trying to have a get together and smoke the meat for it, and have it ready by noon or at least afternoon…and I can understand wanting to be awake to enjoy it. My personal experience is, I have never truly relaxed and enjoyed hosting anything. My job is everyone else’s comfort and my satisfaction is their happiness. Therefore I stopped hosting so much and putting so much on my shoulders!
Otherwise, I smoke meats while doing other stuff around the house, so loading chips every 45 minutes is not killing me. And I simply get up really early to get a smoke started, and with an MES, that is fast. I also don’t buy butts the size of my upper torso that take 20 hours to finish.
I bought a variety box of wood chips last year, and in that box was a free version of something that looks like the A-Maze-N tray. And now I have misplaced it! I’ll be cleaning the garage a bit later on, if I find it I’ll post a pic of it. I had forgotten about it until I popped in to this thread. I think that company sells pellets or dust or something too. I’ll report back if I find it.
Last edited:
