A few more mods, advice needed

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dobson156

Fire Starter
Original poster
Jun 10, 2019
33
14
Hi all,

following this thread: https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...sustain-big-fire-modification-project.287777/

I have done all of the work we talked about, including learning to weld in the process and have wound up with this:

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The good news is I just about managed to cook a 11lbs brisket, although it did take nearly 17hrs. I cook it fat side up and wrapped in butcher paper at 6hrs.

Q9utxzn.jpg


The bad news is, although the fire management is BETTER, it's still very difficult.

I started the fire using a one full charcoal chimney with a mixture of briquettes and lump charcoal. And the the is started feed it oak.

The issue I had is that after a maybe 4 hrs or so the charcoal had petered out and I was just using the coals from the wood itself. Which really didn't seem like enough and I was led back to roughly the same problem I had in the original thread. A hard to sustain fire that need constant care and attention with very small sticks (like kindling).

I wasn't really able to control the heat of the fire with the air intake, for the most part I'd be lucky to have the fire going at all and I would be having to feed it really fine sticks. The idea of burning anything large was out of the question.

Like before I got better results if I cracked the lid of the firebox open.

So now I think I need to look into intake side of the smoker.

The firebox looks like this:

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And here is an annotated diagram.

tR9S46g.jpg


A few thoughts:
  1. The intake is below the fire box grate, should it be above, or perhaps the grate a bit lower, the area under the grate is nowhere near to be full of ash and debris.
  2. I think I should make the intake wider and longer
  3. May be the grate should be bob tailed so there is a larger gap for air to get drawn from the intake (you'll see there is a slight gap on the right hand side of the grate.
  4. I think I should build the new intake as a part of side opening door
  5. Perhaps I should add some intakes to the top of the FB chamber
  6. Finally the stack is 36" about the Cooking chamber, perhaps this is too long.
I'd love to hear any comments, if I can provide any more info to be of help please let me know.
 
Last edited:
You need to add a couple smaller holes above your current intake with align directly with you CC opening. This will draw hot air from your firebox to your CC much better. Your lower intake is already quite large by the looks of it
 
Absolutely stunning brisket!

Thank you!

I am really happy with how it turned out. Tasted grate, I think my guests forgave me for making them wait so long before it was ready (thought it'd take 12-14hrs - it took 17 - probably because the fire would 'dip').

The problem is the difficulty of maintaining the fire is means I'd hardly ever be able to do this again, hence why I want to make managing the fire easier. I know it's a craft, but I don't think it should have been as hard as I found it.

I think the fact that it seems to work so much better when the door is cracked open must be a sign of an air flow issue.

I am pretty sure I've rectified all of the issues on the exhaust/cook side of things - I think the intake needs looking at now.
 
You need to add a couple smaller holes above your current intake with align directly with you CC opening. This will draw hot air from your firebox to your CC much better. Your lower intake is already quite large by the looks of it

Dumb question but how does adding more holes ABOVE the fire increase hot air draw?

Also yes, if you use the calculators the air intake size should be ample, which is why I think it might be an issue with it's placement relative to the grate.
 
daveomak daveomak has a good gallery of pictures that can explain it better .

The air holes above the fire help to remove the hot air from the FB and channel it into the cc. It is my belief that once your upper inlets are properly sized and cut, you will prob be using very little of that lower intake.

The reason it worked better before you modded it when you cracked the lid a bit is because it channeled air from that upper space (hot air from your fire) in your firebox into the cc
 
daveomak daveomak
The air holes above the fire help to remove the hot air from the FB and channel it into the cc. It is my belief that once your upper inlets are properly sized and cut, you will prob be using very little of that lower intake.

Interesting, what stops them just being used an exhaust rather than an intake?

I remember reading they should be something like 25% of the ideal intake area. (I'll check that figure). Is there a minimum diameter, like is 1" diameter going to be enough?

The reason it worked better before you modded it when you cracked the lid a bit is because it channeled air from that upper space (hot air from your fire) in your firebox into the cc

It still worked better after the mods with the door open - especially after the charcoal had burnt out and I was just left with the wood coals which made it feel like the fire was struggling.
 
It stops it from being used as an exhaust because the size of your actual chimney is enough to create draft from one side to the other. So the inlets aren't big enough to become exhaust. but that's the point I was making about having to close down your bottom exhaust after you get those top holes in. You will wind up with a better vacuum using less lower intake air.
 
Okay great. I just want to make sure that I don't create to bigger holes and end up ruining it. I'll do the maths and check back here before I take hole saws out!
 
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daveomak daveomak has a good gallery of pictures that can explain it better

Do you mean in this post?

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t...moker-how-to-calculate-build-tutorial.268692/

Do the pictures and maths apply to Offsets as well as reverse flow smokers?

Using that:

  • FB volume (FBv) = 2924.829cuqIn
  • CC Volume (CCv) = 6003.5976cuIn
  • Desired Intake Area (DIa) = CCv * 0.001 = 6.003sqIn
  • Current Intake Area = pi(5"/2)^2 = 19.6349sqIn (so currently oversized)

The guide says that there should be a 20-80 split between upper and lower vents.

So...

6.003 * 0.2 = 1.2sqIn

So ideal circular upper vent...

circular vent diameter = 2*sqrt(1.2/pi) = 1.23"

Does this seem about right? A single ~1.2" hole?
Seems tiny compared to the size of the CC


Also currently my current stack is 36" above the CC top, because I used the guide. However if I do the maths this makes the Stack volume WAY to large.

Is there an issue with an overly long stack? Should I shorten it?
 
Here's one post

Many members have found that a 2nd set of air inlets, directly across from the FB/CC opening, moves heat from the FB to the CC and evens out the heat... Also it burns creosote in the FB....

View attachment 400386

Another

PTF, morning.... Well, I looked for pictures of your smoker and could not find any showing the air inlets on the Fire Box...
So, I'll diagram a solution...
View attachment 401170

Above is a picture of the solution... The lower adjustment damper controls the air to the fire... You can adjust the BTU's by opening and closing the "Pie damper"...
The upper pie damper adjust the "Flow through" air supply... That adjustment moves heat through the Cook Chamber by adding outside air... The outside air will cool the CC and make for more uniform temps... also, the extra air will help consume creosote in the FB making for better tasting food...
Adjusting the 2 inlets will take some learning... It's a touchy/feely thing...
Let us know how well it works...
Dave

Can you add a picture or 3 of the control end of the fire box.....
 
Thanks again, yeah that sort of makes sense.

Does many maths above make sense? If I were to drill a single 1.2" diameter hole opposite from my CC inlet?
 
I can't help with your issues Dobson, but I just want to say thats a damn nice looking smoker.
 
Morning... Adding the upper air inlets .. You can reduce the air to the fire.. Add the air to moving heat out of the FB.. more efficient..
If you don't want to add an adjustable upper air inlet, yes, put a 1" hole directly across from the FB/CC opening.. try it... then add a second 1" hole.. I believe 2 1" holes is good.. OR, add 1, 1.5" hole... 1.5" hole = 2, 1" holes..
You can't calculate the size of the inlet holes... It all depends on air flow through your smoker, stack.. etc....
DO NOT cut off the stack.. the height is necessary for draft....
 
Fantastic reply:

If you don't want to add an adjustable upper air inlet

I can probably do that, I am just not sure how I'd go about adjusting it or what I should be look for when balancing it with the lower vent

yes, put a 1" hole directly across from the FB/CC opening.. try it... then add a second 1" hole.. I believe 2 1" holes is good.. OR, add 1, 1.5" hole... 1.5" hole = 2, 1" holes..

Two 1" holes is probably very doable, I could probably make an adjustor for them as well

DO NOT cut off the stack.. the height is necessary for draft....

So it's better to be over-capacity and keep the length.
 
So it's better to be over-capacity and keep the length.

It's not over capacity... It's necessary to create draft...
No stack = no draft...
20" stack = very little to no draft...
~35" stack = adequate draft for these types of smokers...
The height creates velocity....
The diameter creates volume...
The stack is designed for the volume of the CC... diameter and height of the stack..

The stack creates a pressure differential that automatically sucks.... You do not need heat to create draft... Heat helps... Hot air is less dense... colder more dense air pushes the less dense air out of the way... thus creating an auto draft situation..
 
.
~35" stack = adequate draft for these types of smokers...

Got it. But the stack I have is 4" diameter at 36" long it has the following volume:

Actual Stack Volume = 0.7854 * 4 * 4 * 36 = 452cuIn

Using the guide my ideal volume should be:

Ideal Stack Volume = 0.022 * CCv = 0.022 * 6000 = 132cuIn

Does this disparity between 452 and 132 matter? It over 3x bigger! If I understand you correctly the length is more important than the ideal volume calculated above.

To get a two numbers to match I'd need a 2.3" pipe - which seems very narrow.

Thanks
 
The larger the stack diameter the more flow it will handle... That doesn't mean it will flow that all the time..
This is a gravity/convection system... There is no pressure to drive the air flow...
A 2.3" diameter stack will not work... Too much friction from the side walls vs. the volume...
4" will allow it to flow the amount of air easily per the FB air inlet openings...
The air inlets control the exhaust flow...
The larger diameter will allow you to achieve even temps across the food grate once you figure out controlling the upper air inlets on the FB...
I'd run the upper air inlets open all the time to insure good, even temps...
 
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Okay, thanks for taking the time to respond.

I'll leave the stack as it is, and I'll add the upper intakes.

It'll take me a few weeks as I've got another trip to Texas planned in the meantime, but I'll report back when I've made the modifications.
 
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