Tuning a Smoke N Pit

ddave · Apr 8, 2008

After using the smoker a few times and monitoring end to end temps with meat in it, it has become apparent that some tuning is necessary. Ideally what I would like is to be able to load up the smoker from end to end with ribs and not have to rotate food to keeps things cooking evenly. While I am optimistic, I am also realistic and realize that that may not be possible. My plan is to add a baffle and tuning plates and would like some feedback on the direction I am heading.

I have made a baffle template out of cardboard and an aluminum oven liner.

The top of the firebox opening is about 5-3/4" from the bottom of the chamber. The baffle starts above the opening and extends into the cook chamber about 10" at a 45 degree angle. The height of the end of the baffle is about 2-3/4" from the bottom of the chamber. Is this high enough or will it restrict the airflow too much?

If I put rails to hold up the tuning plates using the screws that hold the legs on and use plates of about 14" wide, it will put the tuning plate height at 3-1/2" from the bottom of the chamber.

I tried to shoot for about the middle of the firebox opening with the plate height.

With this configuration there will be about 30" side to side that the tuning plates will span. What would be a good plate to gap ratio? I figure I would want at least 3 plates and maybe 4. Once I determine the plate to gap relationship and how many plates I want to use, I can decide how wide to make the plates.

I don't have a welder or metal cutting tools (or skills) so as I move through the project, it will require many trips to the local welding shop. I would like get as much of your input as possible and hopefully get 'er pretty close then start fine tuning it.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Dave

master_dman · Apr 8, 2008

Have you used any kind of baffle as of yet?

I have the same exact Brinkmann..

I tried fashioning a baffle for a test run.. I just used several layers of foil and kinda pushed it into place.. I didn't have the expected results.. I couldn't get the heat up, even with LOTS of coals.

I'd be real interested in what you've already tried and what kind of luck you had.

k5yac · Apr 8, 2008

I tried something similar with fair results. Click on my mods link in my signature.

I like what you are doing... might I suggest the you drill several holes in the flat part of your baffle to help disperse the escaping heat a bit. Perhaps extend the baffle down the pit a little further and start with small holes (maybe 1/4" dia.) near the fire end and add progressively larger holes as you go further from the heat. What I have found with mine is that the heat rises from the end of my baffle and puts some high temps on stuff in the middle of the rack. Not near as bad as it was at the firebox end before the baffle, but noticeable. I think yours will work well with if you can minimize that effect.

walking dude · Apr 8, 2008

mossymo's mod was made a stickie............

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...?t=9774&page=6

ddave · Apr 8, 2008

I haven't used a baffle but what I did do is put a gigantic foil roasting pan full of water up against the firebox opening. I just set the charcoal tray on the lowest level and put the water pan on that.

I also made an ugly no weld charcoal basket and dump one chimney of unlit in the basket then dump a chimney full of lit on top of that.

The basket also sits up higher than the stock grate.

That usually gives me plenty of heat.

My end to end temps vary a bit -- even more so when there is meat on the grates. But what is wierd is that I have two dial thermometers in the lid at about grate level

and I have two digital probes at grate level while smoking. The digital and the dial thermo at the far end are usually pretty close -- within 5 degrees of each other but the dial thermo at the firebox end is usually about 20 or 30 degrees higher than the digital at that end. End to end temp reading from the digitals varies from 10 to 50 degrees or more when there is fresh meat on.

It is really irritating to have 4 thermometers giving me 4 different readings when 2 of them are located very close to each other.

Dave

capt dan · Apr 8, 2008

I think the difference in probes on the firebox side might be because the difference in elevation. 2-3 inches higher from the grate makes a bit of a difference, especially in the hottest part of the chamber. Try these mods if you can. I know you said you didn't have tools/skills. So maybe you will hafta have it done for you by a fab, or a handy friend.

a baffle like the one above works great, and is only fastened by the one bolt that you see in the center of the bend. It diverts the heat down and farther into the chamber,but not so far as to bypass alot of your grate area. You still want to be able to smoke meats that are close to the firebox.

Now if you take your tuning plate ideas in this direction, and include some spacing between the plates, you can tune them to your liking. The baffle in this pic is my first attemp on the Charbroil silver. It worked OK, but let heat escape around the edges.

The yellow that ya see is cold congealed fat in the top of my water pan at the end of the row of plates.

Hope this helps you visualize a lil better. It took me a couple of months and a dozen smokes to get the ole Silver tuned in the way I like. About a 15-20 degree difference from end to end.

ddave · Apr 8, 2008

WD, thanks for the link. I had come across that thread before but revisiting it was really helpful.

Dan, thanks for your info as well. I had wondered about the effect of the baffle transferring the hot spot to the middle grate. I like the idea of drilling holes in the baffle to avoid making the first grate unusable. I also want to make the plates out of heavy enough material so that they have some mass and can absorb and hold the heat. Seems that would help a lot to stabilize temps as well.

From other threads I have seen, it seems that the consensus is to use 3 tuning plates. I just need to decide on a plate to gap ratio and placement. I think I will look for a cheapo used hot plate to stick in the firebox for testing purposes. One less variable to try to control. I figure I can fire up the hot plate, leave it for 15 or 20 minutes or so and check the end to end temps, mvoe the plates and start over. It will definitely involve a lot of trial and error.

Thanks for your help.

Dave

lcruzen · Apr 8, 2008

This thread couldn't have been timed any better for me. Just brought home a Silver smoker and am planning the mods for it. This is perfect guys! Thanx!

pyre · Apr 15, 2008

I bought 2 pieces of steel from the local Ace Hardware store. I think they measured somewhere around 12" x 18". Cut them lengthwise into 3 pieces each, measuring 12" x 6". They lay perfectly in the bottom of my smoker, with no braces or brackets needed. The first overlaps my baffle, which covers about 1/3 of teh opening from the firebox.

Its not perfect, but its a lot better than what the thing was stock. I figure I get about 30 degrees of difference from one end to the other.

I think with the smokestack pulled down to grate level, you should get plenty of smoke circulation in your cooking area. The smoke has to come back down from the top to exit the smoker via the grate level stack, so it should fill the cooking chamber pretty evenly. Personally, I"m not too worried about covering too much area near the firebox. I'm more concerned with getting even temps across the cooking area.

I've taken a short hiatus from this website. In the next week or so I am going to clean out he smoker and redo my baffle. I'll post plenty of pictures when its ready to cook again.

glued2it · Apr 15, 2008

I did build a baffle in my mine but I didn't install any tuning plates.

I did just install a new smoke stack extension.
I originally had some aluminum flashing, But I replaced it with some stainless steel pipe.

master_dman · Apr 15, 2008

The one thing I haven't done so far is make a charcoal box. I don't exactly think it's needed yet. I just put the coals on the coal grate that came with it.

There is plenty of room below for air. And all I do is take a fireplace ash shovel and do a quick scoop of the ashes. When I did my 9 hour brisket smoke just the other day.. I had to clear the ashes away once about midway thru.

Of course.. the stock grate is warped in a few spots.. and it won't last forever.. then I'll make me a box.

glued2it · Apr 15, 2008

You can take your stock grates and turn them sideways so they sit higher.
You can smoke for 15hrs and won't have to empty your ashes.
Providing your using lump charcoal.

ddave · Apr 16, 2008

I was wondering how you guys went so long without emptying ashes. Haven't been able to find any decent lump in my area so far. Local Safeway has Best of the West and Lowes has Cowboy. Nakedwhiz charcoal database didn't seem too impressed with either but I broke down and bought a bag of Cowboy to try.

Will have to try some of the "non-chain" hardware stores to see if maybe they have lump. Or see if I can get the local ACE dealer to order some Royal Oak. They have the Royal Oak briquettes but not lump.

The stock grate is a piece of junk. After the curing run mine looked like it got run over by a truck. Plus, if you follow the manufacturer's warning about "not letting hot coals touch the side of the firebox" I don't know how you are supposed to get enough in there to get up to temp. With my ugly charcoal basket I don't have to worry about it. I just piile it in.

Within the next week or two, I should have the baffle and tuning plates made and will continue the testing.

Dave

short one · Apr 16, 2008

Dave, here's a link to a thread that smokinmeat started after we made mods to his smokin pit. Sounds like you are planning to mod pretty close to what we did to his. Good luck with your mods.http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...ght=smokinmeat

ddave · Apr 16, 2008

Steve,

Thanks for the link. Actually I have studied those pictures pretty closely during the last week. That is exactly what I want to do to mine.

The one thing I have not been able to determine from that thread or the others that I have seen is the ratio between the overall plate widths and the gap. According to my measurements, I will have about 30" from the baffle to the end of the cooker to cover. So based on some very sophisticated formulas (Wild A** Guesses) I have decided to go with four plates comprised of one each of 10", 8", 6", and 4" widths. That will give me 2" of gap to play.with. The different widths will give me a lot of flexibility to move the gaps around and I can just take out the 4" plate if it seems like I need more gap.

Hopefully I will have all of the pieces by the end of next week and can start testing.

Dave

ddave · Apr 29, 2008

You'd think I was trying to build a Space Shuttle or something with the luck I was having finding material locally. Who knew that 3/4" by 1/8" flat bar was such an exotic commodity in my town.

Anyway, a trip to a neighboring town's welding shop and I have all the stuff I need.

Here is the baffle.

A view with all plates installed.

From the other side. Hoping that the gap between the baffle and first plate is big enough. If not, I have a drill.

And finally . . . with the grates on. My water pan of choice still fits as well which was a nice surprise.

Thanks, Capt Dan, WD, Short One, Mossy Mo, Hawg Heaven and everyone else for making their work available. And thanks Teeotee for the info on sealing the cook chamber lid. Will have to work on that once the tuning stuff is done. Now I need to fire it up and see how the temps are.

Also, I assume I need to "season" it as if it is new? Should I spray the plates with Pam before I fire it up and run it empty? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Tomorrow will be test day . . . unless something comes up . . like the wind.

Thanks guys.

Dave

ddave · May 1, 2008

Well, it was windy, but I did a test burn anyway. I started with one chimney of lit Cowboy dumped on top of two chimneys unlit in the charcoal box. With the damper 100% open, it took about 30 minutes to get to 236. Side to side temps were about 15 degrees apart.

After about an hour of 225 - 230, I opened the firebox door to give it more air. Temp climbed to 270 on the firebox side and on the smokestack side, went to 282. I thought it was interesting that the side away from the firebox got warmer with the firebox door open. The increased airflow must have been carrying the heat farther down the chamber before it was rising.

I closed the firebox door and the temp returned to the 230 range after about an hour Since I was not cooking anything, and I had some briquettes to get rid of, I poured the rest of them in the chimney (about 1/2 full) and lit it. When I dumped them in I still had to open the firebox door to get the temps above 240 or so.

End to end temps evened out failrly well, but the greatest thing was the recovery time. I opened the lid to simulate a spritz break. The temp would drop about 45 degrees but recover in about 4 or 5 minutes. After that 1/8" plate got heated up, it did a great job of stablizing the temps.

Of course this was an empy run with no meat, but it was very encouraging. Once I find some decent lump which will give me a little more leeway I am hoping for some long consistent burn temps. Even with the Cowboy, it would hold 225 - 230 for a long time with the damper full open, but that doesn't give me much extra control if the meat is soaking up a lot of heat, or the wind comes up.

Thanks guys for all your input and I hope to post some good lookin' Qview in the future. Without SMF, this would have turned into just a charcoal bbq and I probably would have given up smoking. You guys are awesome!!!

Dave

richtee · May 1, 2008

Tell ya what...My bro put a basket in his and it REALLY helped. Temps were better and everything was just easier! His basket has "feet" built in..it's expanded metal with the bottom welded in about an inch above the bottom edge of the square. just give it a few taps...ashes out!

rivet · May 1, 2008

These are great modifications you've done...I really like the dual temp gauges. I had to replace my firebox door due to warpage after the first two smokes. I took it off and used it as a pattern for 1/16" stainless. It's bulletproof now! Yeah, the grate in there stinks too, looks like ocean swells. I'm working on a replacement with flat iron. The plastic wheels drove me crazy, so I replaced them with 6" rubber tires on steel rims with ball-bearings I found at the local Ace hardware. Used 1/2" chrome bolts with matching nuts for axles and it looks really sharp. Effortless and silent rolling! Bolted a 3x5 1/16" stainless plate to the table surface and have a steady place to set my beer down on as well. I've not noticed any issue with smoke coverage inside, does your chimney extension really make a big difference? It looks good though.

ddave · May 1, 2008

Rivet, thanks for the compliments. I think the chimney extension makes a big difference based on what I have read here. I have never measured it without though. What it does do is help keep the heat and smoke travelling down at the grate level and across the meat rather than up at the top of the lid.

Your wheels sound cool. I may have to look into that.

Rich, yeah, the basket sure made things easier for me. Another great tip from SMF members.

Thanks.

Dave

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