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I NEED HELP!!! Hot smoking using A-MAZE-N-PELLET-SMOKER and Master Forge LPG smoker with Pics

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

Hi all, This seamed the most fitting place to post this.

 

Finely got some time to play around with my AMNSP on hot smoking. Wife bought some CSR and I decided to smoke them. I have been fighting the AMNSP since the get go. Fought getting it lit due to wind, finely got it lit by using a small piece of dryer lint and 70% rubbing alcohol, placed on the gas grill with the lid closed. The lint was totally burned up before I placed the AMNSP in the smoker. 

 

After getting it lit I have been fighting either keeping it smoking or keeping it from catching on fire. I have placed it in the following  places, with these results;

1. on top of the sand filled water pan in normal place with smoker box in place. will not stay lit. Tried with vents in various places

2. on top of sand filled water pan in normal spot no smoker box. same results as #1

2. on top of smoker tray. catches fire

3. on top of sand filled water pan in smoker box spot. catches fire

4. on top of sand filled water pan and smoker box lid in smoker box spot. catches fire

5. on top of sand filled water pan and upside down smoker box, in smoker box spot. catches fire

6. on rack above sand filled water pan in smoker box spot and smoker box in water pan spot. I thought this was it but the middle of the AMNSP started smoking as well. 

SDC10451.JPG

 

SDC10456.JPG

 

 

I am wondering if I place it inside of the smoker box ( I think it will fit ) and put in some metal tubing ( like break line ) on each side in opposite corners, and connect them to an aquarium pump if that will solve my problem. I have a 2 port aquarium pump, but think that it may put out too much air and make the AMNSP flare up. 

 

I am banging my head on the wall trying to figure this out. Any thoughts and or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. In this 5 1/2 hour smoke I have burned threw at least the amount that would be for a 14 hour smoke. 

 

 

EDIT;

I will post the CSR smoke with Q-view later

 

post #2 of 14

I'm subscribed. I've searched this forum and the internet and have posted a couple of questions about using an AMNPS in my GOSM propane and I haven't found any answers. I have come to the conclusion they are only for electrics and cold smoking. I hope you get some answers because I would really like to be able to use one.

post #3 of 14
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by S2K9K View Post

I'm subscribed. I've searched this forum and the internet and have posted a couple of questions about using an AMNPS in my GOSM propane and I haven't found any answers. I have come to the conclusion they are only for electrics and cold smoking. I hope you get some answers because I would really like to be able to use one.

 

Well Todd says they can be used for hot smoking, and I have no doubt in my mind if he says it can be it can. I know a couple people on here have done it, it's just figuring out how in each individual smoker. I have in no way given up on this I am hoping others will have suggestions I haven't thought of yet. Using it for cold smoking was EASY BREEZY, the hot smoking is the tricky one. I actually got a better smoke flavor from the pellets, then I do using chips and chunks. That in it's self fuels my desire to figure this out.

post #4 of 14

PM sent to NWDave...he can help you with methods, or will know someone who can.

 

 

Eric

post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by forluvofsmoke View Post

PM sent to NWDave...he can help you with methods, or will know someone who can.

 

 

Eric

 

Cool thanks Eric. I knew someone on here would most likely have suggestions. 

post #6 of 14

Sparky, a retired electrician here so we should be on the same wave length.  Yes, I've successfully worked out one of the techniques for using an AMNPS with a gasser, however, it was with the larger GOSM.  Your Master Forge is the smaller one (I use to have one).  As you've discovered, heat is your enemy.  You need adequate oxygen flow to make the AMNPS work successfully.  I'm going to duck away for a moment and find the links you and S2K9K have not found yet.  Back in an electronic moment.

 

post #7 of 14

Thanks Dave, I have the GOSM widebody 3405bgw so I hope this will help me.

post #8 of 14

I've opened up another page in the forum "Propane Smokers" and am cruising the links and posting some of the more relevant links dealing with the Master Forge.  A lot of roadwork has been done with this particular unit.  The search function can sometimes be less than satisfactory and plain old legwork through the forums works better.

 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/88498/master-forge-smoker-at-lowes

 

Here's a neat trick to get fine tuning with your gas valve.  Highly recommended.  I have a parts list posted in this particular thread with excellent photos provided by another. 

 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/88700/love-those-needle-valves

 

More direct info about using the AMNPS in a GOSM, however these units are larger than your Master Forge and we were able to move the AMNPS over to the side.

 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/110992/cant-keep-my-amnps-lit-in-my-masterbuilt-xl

 

 

This next link reminded me of a particular problem we ran into with keeping the pellets lit.  Moisture is obviously a no-no.  I live in the Pacific NorthWest and the humidity runs in the neighborhood of a sopping wet rag and a torrential downpour.  Much better burn rate is achieved by microwaving the pellets for a couple of minutes then using them.

 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/106315/a-maze-n

 

Finally found it, a picture of my mods to my GOSM.  Big Block, that is.  The SFB on the right side is my ultimate answer to using the AMNPS with the Big Block.  I tried the same thing with the Master Forge but didn't get as favorable results.

 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/101638/must-have-mods-for-gosm-bb

 

That takes me through page 13 of the 29 pages of the Propane Smoker forum.  Should be enough food for thought.  As you can see, most success was achieved with a Big Block GOSM.  The Master Forge just doesn't have a large enough footprint to utilize the AMNPS effectively, internally.

 

~Dave

 

 

 

 

 

post #9 of 14

Dave, Thank You Very much! for taking the time to do this. I see some good ideas and I really like the SFB, I think it could add a lot of versatility.

post #10 of 14

Hey Guys

Dave was VERY instrumental in the development of the AMNPS!!!

Since Dave has propane smokers, he was a perfect guinnea pig!!

 

The frustrations you all are going thru are exactly what Dave went thru during testing. 

The end result is that the AMNPS needs to be placed between the flame and an intake vent, and you'll need a heat shield between the pellets and the flame.

 

Here's a pic from Dave's testing

pellet4.jpg

No Creosote! A-Maze-N Smokers

Reply
post #11 of 14

Todd, thanks for the credit, but that particular picture was from Roller, I think.  The giveaway was the sand in the water tray and I'm not neat enough yet to line my grease catch tray with foil.  Yes, sure was a lot of frustration on the road to success.

 

Another point to be covered is that you don't want drips from the product being smoked falling onto the AMNPS.  Has a very "dampening" effect.  You'll need to fab up a foil roof to protect the pellets.  Mine was fabbed up out a material similar to the foil pie plates, with legs that allowed about 4 inches of clearance between the "roof" and the top edge of the AMNPS.  Works great.  Credit to Todd for coming up with that one.

 

As you can see, there are no hard and fast rules to getting satisfactory results in smoke production equipment.  Remember, the AMNPS and the AMNS (its predecessor) were developed with cold smoking in mind.  Now, Todd is adapting it to work in the hot smoke environment. 

 

Got any ideas? Todd's always open to suggestions.  Don't be shy about posting them here or PMing him about it.

 

I'm currently working on a "Secret Squirrel" project that I hope will provide a solution to smoke production in a different style of smoker.  No peeking allowed.  The best part of the seeking of the truth is that I'm smoking food at the same time and it's really hard to ruin a well smoked food, even if the "smoke quality" isn't what you wanted.  I always say, if you didn't cremate it, it's probably edible.

post #12 of 14
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the input guys. The heat shield suggestion has sparked a few ideas here, that I will try out and see what happens. Another thought I have is to incorporate some sort of fan to force feed air into the smoker. And it may very well be I end up with an external smoker box to place the AMNSP in. I got a few ideas on this as well. 

 

I could be wrong here but the sand filled water pan should act as a heat shield, but then again the radiant heat from the sand may be the problem. Any thoughts on this? I haven't given up hope yet and will ponder and try other ideas. Keep the ideas/suggestions coming. I welcome any and all thoughts. 

 

I already told my wife I needed a different smoker in order to make the AMNSP work properly, and end the frustrations. I was hoping to get the OK to buy a GOSM BB . Her reply was you need another smoker like I need holes in my head, and if you buy one there WILL be holes in your head.

post #13 of 14

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprky View Post

Thanks for the input guys. The heat shield suggestion has sparked a few ideas here, that I will try out and see what happens. Another thought I have is to incorporate some sort of fan to force feed air into the smoker. And it may very well be I end up with an external smoker box to place the AMNSP in. I got a few ideas on this as well. 

 

A fan may take a bit more engineering to get it ducted and achieve a controllable flow to the AMNPS, but would be a viable option. The aquarium pump mod looked like very simple and inexpensive fix to provide the oxygen needed for a slow burn, and would have adjustable flow rates with an inline valve. With either mod, being able to direct the flow of air exactly where you need it and have the ability to provide adequate air-flow for proper burn under varied conditions should be considered, else, it may work one day, but may be insufficient or completely out of control the next time you fire it up.

 

I could be wrong here but the sand filled water pan should act as a heat shield, but then again the radiant heat from the sand may be the problem. Any thoughts on this? I haven't given up hope yet and will ponder and try other ideas. Keep the ideas/suggestions coming. I welcome any and all thoughts. 

 

The info I've gotten from NWDave recently, along with a few other threads I've read, is that avoiding high heat and humidity is a must, along with being in a place where there is a good source of fresh air/oxygen. If the AMNPS is above the burner or other heat source, you will have increased temps, and reduced oxygen due to the fire beneath it. The increased temps, as you know already, translate to faster burn of the pellets if enough oxygen is present for it to smoke, so if installed directly above a thermal mass such as a sand-filled water pan, that will be a fairly substantial heat source, though not as high as being directly over the burner in a smoke box or tray, but a significant heat source, none the less. You may get 30-40 minutes of good performance from the AMNPS if it were located above or on the sand sand pan, then get a faster burn or scorching of the pellets once the mass of the sand has heated through shortly afterwards. Being it is sand instead of water, there would be no additional humidity once the sand has been heated up and is dried-out, but it will still become a source of heat, eventually, and especially at higher burner settings for higher chamber temps or to compensate for cold, wet or windy outdoor conditions. It may work for reduced temp smokes, such as CSR's @ ~190-200* in moderately warm ambient temps allowing for lower burner flame (btu output), but 225* and up may be too hot...you just never know 'til you try it.

 

I already told my wife I needed a different smoker in order to make the AMNSP work properly, and end the frustrations. I was hoping to get the OK to buy a GOSM BB . Her reply was you need another smoker like I need holes in my head, and if you buy one there WILL be holes in your head.

 

LMAO!!! Sounds about right, but how many pairs of shoes does she have? 15, or 80? LOL!!!

 

Does she not like smoked foods? I ask because my wife and kids are the reason for me having my Smoke Vault 24...father's day gift...they saw me oogling it online for a few months, so they knew it had my interest, and they know I don't start researching any product unless I'm considering it as an addition to my arsenal. They love smoked foods and support my efforts to create better entree's and/or spend a bit less time tending the smoker. They buy me little gadgets, tools and accessories when they find something they think I can use that I don't already have (or I have mentioned that I need, or need to replace). Maybe I'm lucky in that aspect, not having to shop around much stuff I use when I cook, but if you really want to pursue this, you may need to do a bit more prodding, in a gentle manner, or course. Just help her understand that it is something you really want to roll with. If money is an issue, look at your budget and maybe you can cut something else, temporarily.

 

The BB GOSM is actually a pretty decent buy for what you're getting. It would have been my first choice for an upgrade purchase if I hadn't walked out on the deck the morning of father's day and bumped into my Smoke Vault, all assembled and ready to hook up a bottle and start seasoning it...how could I refuse?

 

 

Good luck! We'll be here to help along the way whenever we can.

 

 

Eric

 

 

 

post #14 of 14

Mounting an aquarium air pump next to the smoker, aircontrol valve inline (I used a water valve from my drip irrigation system I was playing with a few years back, never throw away anything, that worked perfectly.).  Punch a hole in the side of the smoker, the same diameter as some metal tubing (like perhaps copper tubing or some tubing used in instrument air).  Besure you have a couple or three inches of metal tubing on the outside of the smoker, I used 6" in my experiment, which you fit the plastic tubing to.  It worked and you'd be suprised how little airflow you really needed.  Too much air will increase the burn rate of the pellets which would be counterproductive.

 

As you'll notice, Eric is the guy who knows a whole heck more about the science of combustion and such things.  Me, I just like to tinker with things to see what I can get to work or to improve something.  You ought to see what I did to a 22.5 Weber Smoker (aka WSM).  Tooltime Tim would say "More Power"!!!!  Shoot, once in a while, I even manage to smoke some meat satisfactorily.

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