Newbie just can't get it right

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dignan17

Newbie
Original poster
May 15, 2017
14
10
Hi all, I'm looking for some help here. My lovely wife got me a Camp Chef Smoke Vault vertical smoker for Christmas, and I haven't made anything good in it yet. I've tried two racks of ribs and two briskets, and for the most part they've turned out terribly.

I've been extremely patient, tried to follow the recipes and instructions I've found online, and gotten help from friends with smokers, and I just can't seem to get it right.

For example, the last brisket I cooked was a ~9.5lb from Costco. I covered it in a basic dry rub, put it in the fridge overnight, got it out, fired up the smoker, and put it in at ~230. I threw some wood chunks in there and it smoked up. I then tended to it for 14 hours!! It took forever to get up to the 185 I read was the target. I opened the door as infrequently as possible, probably about four times to check on the water level and top it off. I kept the temps at around the same level as much as possible.

First, is it supposed to take that long?

And second, I don't mind if it does, but the results had better be fantastic, and they just...weren't. I'd say the middle was very good. Nice and tender. Didn't blow me away but I liked it. The rest of it, however, was very tough and dry.

Lastly, how do I know the right amount of wood to put in? My wife and I thought the brisket ended up TOO smokey. It was kind of overwhelming. I did put quite a lot in there, but maybe I should dial it back? I just don't know what the right amount is!

Please help. So far, I've been very disappointed with this purchase. The results just aren't worth the effort I'm putting into it, or the expense of the equipment I've purchased...

*edit*

I should mention that I'm not trusting the thermometer on the door of the smoker. I have a digital thermometer with an ambient probe in addition to the meat probe. I kept it at 225 the whole time, and the whole time the door said 195!
 
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Have you checked the digital therm?

Check out the sub-section on your type of smoker. You will find other folks with your smoker. They will be your best source for ideas and tips. Also check into Jeffs free ecourse on here.

Good luck and good smoking. Stick with it. Joe
 
Yes brisket at your temp will go 1.5 hours pe4r pound. 185 is on the low end. Most guys get what they are looking for at 195-200. I know this sounds weird but many meats will be juicy up, to 150 then get dry as moisture evaporates from all but the very center. It will stay dry until sufficient Collagen, connective tissue, changes to liquid Gelatin and makes the meat juicy again.
On adding wood, 1-2 three inch chunks as needed is plenty. You add wood when you not only can't see smoke but you can't smell it either. Your goal is Thin Blue Smoke most of the cook. If you have billowing white clouds, you are are adding too much too soon.
It's a new smoker for you. Slow down and learn how to make it give you great food. Chicken Quarters are cheap and you don't get so frustrated when they are not right. Ribs or Butts are a good meat to graduate to. Below is some info that will help get good results...JJ

Smoked Ribs as easy as 3-2-1

A full rack of Spare Ribs will take about 6 hours at 225*F...The 3-2-1 smoked rib recipe is a good way to smoke ribs and tends to turn out perfect ribs every time whether you are using the meatier Full rack spare rib or the Saint Louis cut. Baby Back ribs use a 2-2-1 method. The ribs are smoked at 225 - 250 degrees for best results...
The 3 stands for the 3 hours that you initially smoke the ribs with nothing but your favorite rub on them and some smoke with your favorite hardwood such as hickory, apple, pecan, etc. After the 3 hours you remove the ribs and quickly double wrap them in heavy duty foil.. just before you seal them up add some Foiling Juice or Apple Juice and close the foil leaving some room around the ribs for the steam to be able to flow around the meat and the juice to braise the meat which Flavors/Tenderizes it.
The ribs cook in the smoker wrapped for 2 hours undisturbed. There is no need for Smoke at this point... After 2 hours remove the ribs from the smoker, unwrap, saving any juices in the foil, and place back into the smoker for the final 1 hour, with smoke if you wish.This firms them up, creates a nice Bark and finishes the cooking process. You can add a glaze or sauce at this point if you like. The meat will be pretty close to fall off the bone and be extremely juicy, tender and flavorful...JJ

Foiling Juice / Sweet Pulled Pork Finishing Sauce

Foiling Juice

For each Rack of Ribs Combine:

1T Pork Rub, yours
1/2 Stick Butter
1/2C Cane Syrup... Dark Corn Syrup...or Honey
1/4C Apple Cider...or Juice
1T Molasses

Optional: 2T Apple Cider Vinegar( Recommended ). Add 2T Mustard and 1/4C Ketchup to make it more of a KC Glaze.

Simmer until a syrupy consistency.
Allow to cool for 5 minutes, pour over foiled Ribs and
run your 2 hour phase of 3-2-1. For the last phase return
the ribs to the smoker BUT reserve any Juice remaining
in the Foil. Simmer the Juice over med/low heat to reduce to a saucy thickness. Glaze the Ribs for presentation or service.

For a Sweet Finishing Sauce for Pulled Pork: Make a Double batch, skip the Butter.

If you plan to Foil the meat, add 1/2 the batch to the Foil Pack or place it in a Pan with your Butt, when the IT hits 165*F.
Cover the pan with foil and continue to heat to 205*F for pulling.
At 205* rest or hold the Butt in a cooler wrapped in towels until ready to serve.
Pull the Pork and place it back in the pan with the pan Juices and any additional reserved Foiling Juice to moisten, the meat should be shiny and juicy but not swimming in sauce. Serve while hot...OR... Bag and refrigerate until needed.
If you choose to Not Foil or Pan the Butt. Add the Finishing Sauce to the pulled meat before serving. Add the hot Finishing Sauce a little at a time until the Pork is moistened, again the meat should be shiny but not swimming in sauce.
When re-heating place the Pulled Pork in a Pan or Crock pot and add reserved Foiling Juice or Apple Cider, as needed to make up the Juice that was absorbed while the pork was refrigerated. Cover and re-heat in a pre-heated 325-350*F oven or on High in the crock pot to 165*F and Serve.
Makes about 1Cup

I was AMAZED...No additional sauce needed. ENJOY...JJ

Tangy Pulled Pork Finishing Sauce

This is more of an Eastern North Carolina style Finishing Sauce...

2 C Apple Cider Vinegar
2T Worcestershire Sauce or more to taste
1/4C Brown Sugar
1T Smoked Paprika
2 tsp Granulated Garlic
2 tsp Granulated Onion
2 tsp Fine Grind Black Pepper
1 tsp Celery Salt
1 tsp Cayenne Pepper or Red Pepper Flake. Add more if you like Heat.
1/2 tsp Grnd Allspice

Combine all and whisk well. This is a thin sauce, bring just to a simmer and remove from heat. Adjust sweetness by adding Brn Sugar or additional Vinegar as desired...Makes about 2 Cups.

For a Lexington Style Dip add, 1/2C Ketchup and 1-3tsp Red Pepper Flakes...JJ
 
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I have been where you are. What I was doing is probably exactly what you are doing right now; going all over the internet looking for solutions. After all the confusing videos/blogs/forums, I finally settled on smokingmeatforums.com for advice. If you search, there's an abundance of Camp Chef owners that can help you get the smoker figured out. Then there's recipes from folks like Chef JimmyJ (I have used some of his and they blew me and my family away.) and many others.

Accurate temperature of the smoker and meat is important, as is the amount of wood. Billowing white smoke pouring out of the stack/exhaust is bad. To give you an idea, I use a side-fire-box wood burner (no charcoal, fuel is split wood) and the smoke coming from the stack is nearly invisible. With my electric smoker, I probably use no more than a hand full of wood chips for anything I smoke on there. Meat doesn't have to be in smoke for the entire duration of the cook to have a good smoke flavor.

There is a learning curve when it comes to smoking meat, and once you get it figured out it is definitely worth the effort.
 
First off, welcome aboard!

Next, take a step back and relax. You can do this. It just takes a little time and patience. You just got a little ahead of yourself. Starting off with brisket was maybe a little bit ambitious. Ribs have their own set of disasters in waiting.

Let's start with brisket. It's expensive. It's finicky. It's not that great even at it's best. Save that for later. MUCH later. Like, don't even bother with it, you're not missing anything.

On to ribs. They'll drive you crazy. At least they did me. For over a year I fussed, fiddled, tweaked and never quite got what I wanted. The interwebs are fraught with bad advice and misinformation about ribs. I tried the 3-2-1 method. Ended up with mush. I tried the bend test, the toothpick test, the bone pull, the bone twist. I tried foiling, not foiling, partial foiling. My wife threatened to leave me if I brought one more damn rack of ribs into the house. Then one day I noticed a post by Disco called Ribs the way I like them. Go read the post now. I'll wait.

I followed his method and whaddaya know, perfect ribs. Plus, you can tweak it to your liking and get the results you want every time without all the voodoo BS. There are some folks who swear you can't accurately temp ribs, but I've used this method now probably 15 times and it's worked every time. Just put your probe between the bones in the thickest part of the rack. Don't worry about the temperature in the rest of the rack. When the temp in the thickest part hits 185°-200°, depending on how you like your ribs, the whole rack will be perfect.

Try some chicken. It's quick, cheap and easy. For white meat or a whole chicken, shoot for smoker temps of 300°+. For thighs or leg quarters, I go 250°-275°. It's done when the internal temperature is 165° for white meat, 175° for dark meat. A pack of chicken thighs will set you back about 6 bucks and be done in a couple hours. They're tasty and a good way to dial in your temps and such. They're also very forgiving.

Smoke is kind of subjective. Some like a lot, some a little. Try one chunk and see how long it lasts. Then adjust from there. Usually 2 or 3 chunks does it for my taste on my smoker.

There's a lot of good info and advice to be had here, but nothing beats personal experience and a little time. You'll get there, just don't expect to be Aaron Franklin your first time out!! And always feel free to ask questions here.
 
Big Ditto to ChefJimmy!

Also just wanted to add/reiterate some of my experience that first of all, sounds like you just need to slow down a bit, and start with some more basic stuff. Briskets are really like the pinnacle of BBQ, that can even keep pro pitmasters up at night, so don't feel bad yours didn't turn out. I wouldn't spend the money on a good brisket till I knew I had chicken, pork butt, and ribs down patt. You just need to learn how you smoker works, little instincts and intuition about the meat and what it looks like and smells like at different stages, and just to understand the basics of BBQ. (As Jimmy also said 195-205 is more the temps you want on Brisket, but also make sure you give the meat a GOOD LONG rest to settle and redistribute after the cook). I feel you on the long cook there, I volunteered to do a brisket for my family Christmas lunch, and stayed up all night on Christmas eve working at it, all before I had ever done one successfully, and though it tasted fine, it was tough, and I just felt bad I wasted all that time on Christmas, and didn't turn out an awesome meal for my whole extended family.

A lot of people have been where you are including myself, and probably most of us on here, but it is so worth it once you start having those little breakthroughs. Like Jimmy said, and there are several other posts about this, grab yourself some whole small chickens, or chicken half/quarters, and go to town on those for a couple weeks, take them to 165 breast, 175 leg, and take it VERRY easy/light on the smoke in the beginning. Most people want to start by adding a bunch, but if anything, you should start just a pinch of chips till you understand how much the amount imparts to the food. Much more practical/measurable to start with very little and dial it up than to just end up with way to much smoke flavor and not know how much to dial back.

Depending on the meat one small palm-full of chips (or a couple 2 inch chunks)  can be enough for a full cook of chicken, or that amount every hour or so for the first few hours on a Butt or Brisket. You don't need wood in the whole cook, and in general the food will stop taking smoke flavor once it gets to about 150-165 in my personal experience.

I personally think that Butts are the easiest and most forgiving, and if I could recommend a starting point, it would actually be butts over chicken, but that is just my personal experience. Use a good quality, well marbled Boston Butt, and get a good rub on there, use this forum for some walkthroughs, and step by steps. Look up "Bears Step By Step Guide" in the search, Bearcarver has some great easy every step of the way walk through guides that are awesome!
 
I was never totally satisfied with my cooks until I started smoking everything at 275 -285. Haven't been let down yet with that temp. I used to smoke around 225.
 
I was never totally satisfied with my cooks until I started smoking everything at 275 -285. Haven't been let down yet with that temp. I used to smoke around 225.
I still vary all of my meats depending on what Im cooking, but Hoyt has a point, that often those higher temperatures can produce more consistent results in a lot less time. A lot of competition teams do all categories in that higher range for consistency.
 
Thanks so much for all the advice, folks! I'm encouraged by it. I don't know where on earth I read that briskets were actually an easier thing to make, but now that I know they're the hardest and that I cooked to the wrong temperature, I feel pretty good about the results I was able to get!

Those ribs are making my mouth water. I think I'll follow the advice of starting out easy, though. I'll try some chicken first, particularly thighs which I know from every other cooking method are the most forgiving meat I've ever cooked. That'll be a good start. Would boneless thighs work ok in the smoker, you think?

Then I'll work my way up to the ribs. I'll try the 3-2-1 method and the Disco one too.

Thanks again, I have renewed energy to go out and try to make something the right way...
 
Boneless thighs do just fine. Lots of comp teams still use those as well. The thigh is gonna be your most forgiving cut on the chicken. Most people recommend to take them to 175 due to the dark meat, but I personally still pull them at 165.

My favorite rib method on the forum (IMHO) is @SmokinAl  's method. Wasn't till I started using it that I started turning out ribs I was happy with. Its pretty much a modified 3-2-1 method. Everyone has their different ways of doing it for different reasons, and different areas of the country, but  I like to wrap personally. Just figure out what you like and through trial and error.

Here is a link to Als method: http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/240916/perfect-ribs-every-time-this-really-works

Good luck, and happy smoking
 
Hi Dignan17,
a fellow CCSV24" owner here and I really like the results I get with mine.
The following is my $0.02 for the CCSV, your mileage may vary.
Pay attention to SmokinAl if he chimes in, he also cooks on a CCSV.

1) Do not trust the factory thermometer on the door until you know what the actual temp is compared to it's reading.
Mine reads approx 20'-25' lower than actual, but now that I know that, it's a non-issue.

2)The Cheap Route
Get one or two inexpensive oven thermometers, and split the difference if there is any.
This isn't rocket science, get a temp within 10'-20' of what you desire and hold it for the cook.
Just know that at a minimum you need a cooking temp 20'-25' above your desired Internal Temp for the meat being cooked to be able to attain that IT.
Now look at the door thermometer, and note how far off it is. I know that it's 200' is actually approx 225' +/-, and that it maintains that variance all the way to about 400'.

3) The Expensive Route
Buy a good dual probe thermometer, verify it's calibration, and KNOW what your real cooking temps and IT are.

4)Buy a good instant read probe thermometer, very handy item to have for taking IT in multiple pieces of meat and ect.

5) The gas controls are VERY sensitive, a little input has a big effect on temp, learn what you burner flame looks like for your desired temps.
Also, as you learn it helps to mark your controls where you like them, I now know right about where I can achieve 225'-240', 275'-280' and 350'-375'.

6) Preheat.
Especially with a water pan, use hot water to fill/refill the pan and let it heat up.
It acts as a big heat sink if you use cold water and your temp will drop.
And during that time you're not getting any benefit from it other than as a drip pan.

7) VERY IMPORTANT
Allow your chunks to ignite and burn for awhile, let that white smoke burn off, and then add a chunk or two at a time atop the ashes of the burnt to maintain.
Do this to attain a light grey/blue smoke or the highly desirable, almost invisible Thin Blue Smoke.
I load a single layer of chunks and small pieces, let burn down about halfway on med high heat, then lower my burner to achieve my desired temp.
Then the Meat Meets the Heat.
..................................................
..................................................

All the cooking advice you've received so far is right on target.
You brisket was simply under cooked.
 
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Thanks for the response, ChileRelleno. I have a dual temp digital thermometer. It certainly shows the massive difference between the door temp and the actual.

But it isn't helping!! Argh!

The other day I tried very simple chicken thighs, as discussed, and it was terrible. They took 3.5 hours to just barely come to 165, and by that time they were super dry on the surface. It was awful! I had them at 250. Should I be cooking everything 25 higher than whatever the recipe I'm using says? What's going on?
 
Folks, thanks for the help, but I just can't seem to get it. I'm cooking an 8 pound pork shoulder for pulled pork following the basic instructions from these forums. It's been on for 13 hours at 225, and I'm currently at 174. It seemed to stall at at least three points, and it's been 173-4 for over an hour.

I try to limit for opening to a minimum, but I've been opening every hour or so to spray apple juice or add wood. That's about it. What the heck am I doing wrong?

Between this and the dry chicken thighs, I feel like I can't cook anything in this smoker...
 
You've been offered lots of great advice so far. Everybody smokes meat slightly differently. Some cook at hotter, some at lower temps. Personally I tend to cook pretty much everything at about 240 degrees, but that's just my way of doing it. When I'm BBQing I'm just not in a hurry. The meat will be done when the meat is done.

You never did say whether or not you boil tested your new therm--both probes. This is VERY important just to ensure that youre cooking at the temp you think you are!!!!!

Ok. First thing to do is follow Md's advice__step back and relax. BBQ is supposed to be a fun way to kick back and relax, with the added benifit of food as the final product.

Pork butt is the most forgiving cut of meat on this planet. I've never met a butt I didn't like, but they are notorious for the dreaded stall. I've yet to smoke one that didn't stall--some for an unreasonably long time. It's simply a fact of life. That's why you can never cook a butt by time (and supper is always late). You have to cook it by internal temp. If you plan to make pulled pork then you want an IT of 205 degrees. Then the butt will be probe tender, the bone will slide out clean, and your PP will be tender and juicy.

You have a couple of options when it comes to the stall. You can just wait it out or you can wrap the butt in foil with some foiling liquid and continue cooking. Foiling is a lot faster but waiting it out will give you better bark. Your choice. I usually foil.

Either way, the extra cook time to the higher IT will, as JJ said, melt down all that collagen and make the meat fantastically moist and tender.

So sit back and relax. Let the smoker work its magic on that butt. If it turns out that its not as moist or flavorful as you want then simply mix some finishing sauce into the PP.

As for a few previous fails, join the club!! Like said we've all been there, done that. My hound Roxy has had more than one great meal--and she NEVER tells me I screwed up.

Just don't get frustrated and quit. If you do, you'll never find out what a great thing you'll be missing.

Gary
 
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Thanks, and I'll keep at it. I'll also look up how to do that boil. test you mentioned.

I get that I have to be patient, but I'm sitting here stuck at 187 and it's been 20 hours for an ~8lb pork butt. If I wanted to take this to 203 I'd probably have to wait a total of about 26 hours. That seems wrong to me.

I'll try a higher temp next time, and/or foiling.

Another problem I'm having is that my smoker is not at all consistent. It'll chug along at 225 for an hour, then suddenly I see it's climbed up to 247. It also has the absolute most sensitive controls I've ever experienced on an appliance of any kind. Bringing it back down from 247 to 225 is the matter of a half millimeter turn. That's maddening.
 
 
Thanks, and I'll keep at it. I'll also look up how to do that boil. test you mentioned.

I get that I have to be patient, but I'm sitting here stuck at 187 and it's been 20 hours for an ~8lb pork butt. If I wanted to take this to 203 I'd probably have to wait a total of about 26 hours. That seems wrong to me.

I'll try a higher temp next time, and/or foiling.

Another problem I'm having is that my smoker is not at all consistent. It'll chug along at 225 for an hour, then suddenly I see it's climbed up to 247. It also has the absolute most sensitive controls I've ever experienced on an appliance of any kind. Bringing it back down from 247 to 225 is the matter of a half millimeter turn. That's maddening.
A 22° swing in temps is nothing to be concerned with. My offsets run between 250° and 275° on the big one and 275° to 325° on the little one. Just keep feeding them and let them cook. Personally we cook pork butts and brisket in the 250° to 300° range. T

here is no need in cooking at 225° in my opinion.
 
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