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BBB to salty on test fry... how long to soak to get it out.. (used Mortons smokey sugar cure, so it is a long cure)(now with Qview) - Page 2

post #21 of 44
Thread Starter 

That sounds like a good plan... that is the way my granny used to cook it.. soak it or boil it for a short time and then fry it up.

post #22 of 44
deuce, morning..... this explains the difference between nitrite and nitrate curing temps..... Nitrate need bacteria to convert to nitrite... bacteria needs a higher temp to grow... therefore when using nitrate to cure meat, temps in the range of 46-50 degrees F are preferred... and the length of time needs to be extended for bacteria to grow and the nitrite conversion to take place... Dave


Curing Temperatures

The curing temperature should be between 36-40° F (2-5° C) which falls within the range of a common refrigerator. Lower than 36° F (2° C) temperature may slow down the curing process or even halt it. Commercial producers can cure at lower temperatures because they add chemicals for that purpose. There is a temperature that can not be crossed when curing and this is when meat freezes at about 28° F (-2° C). Higher than normal temperatures speed up the curing process but increase the possibility of spoilage. This is a balancing act where we walk a line between the cure and the bacteria that want to spoil meat. The temperature of 50° F (10° C) is the point that separates two forces: below that temperature we keep bacteria in check, above 50° F (10° C) bacteria forces win and start spoiling the meat.

Meats were traditionally cured with Nitrate. Before Nitrate can release nitrite (the real curing agent) it has to react with bacteria that have to be present in the meat. Putting Nitrate into a refrigerator kept solution (below 40° F) will inhibit the development of bacteria and they may not be able to react with Nitrate. On the other hand sodium nitrite works well at refrigerator temperatures. When used with Nitrates/nitrites, salt is an incredibly effective preserving combination. There has not been even one documented incident of food poisoning of a meat cured with salt and Nitrates.

People in the Far East, Africa, South America and even Europe are still curing meats at higher than normal temperatures without getting sick. That does not mean that we recommend it, but if someone in Canada shoots a 1600 lbs (726 kg) Moose or a 1700 lbs (780 kg) Kodiak Bear he has to do something with all this meat. He is not going to spend 5,000 dollars on a walk-in cooler, is he? These are exceptional cases when curing can be performed at higher temperatures. After the Second World War, ended most people in Europe neither had refrigerators nor meat thermometers, but were curing meats with Nitrate and making hams and sausages all the same.

Because of primitive conditions the curing temperatures were often higher than those recommended today but any growth of C. botulinum bacteria was prevented by the use of salt and Nitrates.

They also predominantly used potassium Nitrate which works best at temperatures of 46-50° F (8-10° C) and those were the temperatures of basement cellars. There was not much concern about longer shelf life as the product was consumed as fast as it was made. Salt and nitrite will stop Cl. botulinum spores from developing into toxins, even at those higher curing temperatures. Due to increased bacteria growth at those higher curing temperatures the shelf life of a product would be decreased. Remember when handling meats, the lower the temperatures the slower the growth of bacteria and the longer life of the product. Extending the shelf life of the product is crucial for commercial meat plants as the product can stay on the shelf longer and has better chances of being sold. Curing is a more complicated process than salting. In addition to physical reactions like diffusion and water binding, we have additional complex chemical and biochemical reactions that influence the flavor and color of the meat.
post #23 of 44
Thread Starter 

Thanks Dave

 

I had read that before and now understand the difference between the two methods.  I double checked the temp swing  of my refer and it was between 38 and 44.  I will continue the long cure

post #24 of 44

That longer time curing might be right for Cure #2, but if you guys get a Morton Book, and look at the chart on page 12, you will see that for Dry curing, they say to use 1/2 ounce per pound of TQ, Sugar cure, or Smoke sugar cure. Also for all 3 they recommend 7 days per inch, with a 2 day period for equalization after the curing time has expired.

 

In other words for Dry curing, they all use the same amount of cure per pound, and the same amount of time for curing.

 

The only difference that they show in usage is that "Smoked Sugar Cure" is not to be used in a pickling brine.

 

I'm not making this up. It comes directly from my "Morton Home Meat Curing Guide".

 

I'm not posting this to start an argument, so if you don't believe me, just get a Morton's Home Meat Curing Guide.

 

 

Bear

post #25 of 44
@deucenahalf,
PM me if you have any questions.




~Martin
post #26 of 44
Thread Starter 

Thanks Martin

post #27 of 44

This is what I was saying:

 

I hope people can read it.

This is the best I could do.

Couldn't get it any larger.

 

This is taken from page 12 of my Mortons' Book.

For Dry Curing Bacon, you can see on the right (2) It says "Sugar Cure (Plain or Smoke flavored) mix is generally used, but TQ may be used for Dry Surface Application."

Then in the left column, go down to BACON Dry Cure, and look to the right, where it says 1/2 (ounces needed per pound of meat).

Then look farther to the right---There it says "7 Days curing time per inch of thickness".

Then to the right again----"-2 days of Salt equalization."

 

 

 

This is for Mortons Products.

Any curing times longer than 7 days per inch of thickness would be when using Cure #2----Not any of the Mortons products.

 

 

Bear

post #28 of 44
Thread Starter 

Looks like I am ok then, another week or so and the smoke will roll.

post #29 of 44

Thumbs UpThumbs UpThumbs Up

post #30 of 44
Thread Starter 

Tomorrow looks like a good day to smoke!  part of the thinner pieces any way...

post #31 of 44

It's officially official all hobbies on Earth have been taken over by pedantic cyber nerd injuneer types spouting math equations. What is a Mother to do?

post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by deucenahalf View Post
 

Tomorrow looks like a good day to smoke!  part of the thinner pieces any way...

 

I would recommend holding the thinner pieces in equalization, until the thicker pieces are also ready to smoke, but that's up to you.

 

Might not be so cold down there, but up here (below zero this morning again) I would not want to freeze my butt off 2 days, when I could do it all in one day. Coffee.gif

 

 

Bear

post #33 of 44
Thread Starter 

LOL, math IS everywhere.

post #34 of 44
Thread Starter 

 Well Bear I missed your post, and I smell smoke. Temp is in the 30's and heading lower and ice storm in the works for sunday.  But I was having withdrawal symptoms from hickory smoke... LOL  I will brave any temp when it gets to me that bad. 

post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by deucenahalf View Post
 

 Well Bear I missed your post, and I smell smoke. Temp is in the 30's and heading lower and ice storm in the works for sunday.  But I was having withdrawal symptoms from hickory smoke... LOL  I will brave any temp when it gets to me that bad. 

 

Believe me, I can dig it-----We're supposed to get at least another foot of snow Sunday through Monday. That will take us over 8 feet total for the Season. :icon_rolleyes:

 

 

Bear

post #36 of 44
Thread Starter 

Ok, so I found out the answer to my salt question... It does NO GOOD, soaking the whole piece of meat before smoking. 

 

I did this and did little to change the overall saltiness, it was better but not enough.  I smoked the meat and after cooling I sliced off several slices, soaked them overnight... and it took ALL the salt out, matter of fact I had to salt it  bit with the shaker because so much had been soaked out.

 

My grandmother soaked hers for an hour or so... now I know what to do!

post #37 of 44

Glad you got that figured out. We will know how to do it next time. Thanks.

post #38 of 44
Thread Starter 

Yup, granny also dipped the bacon in flour too... tried that and it was really good.

post #39 of 44
Thread Starter 


To bad there is no "smellovision"... smells great.

On the left we have bacon cured with Morton's smokey sugar cure... cured according to the Morton's book.

On the right we have bacon cured by following Bearcarver's step by step tutorial, with the skin (underneath the bacon) removed to make cracklin's later.

 

Bacon at left i soaked for 30 min to 1 hour to remove access salt.  Then can be fried as is or dredged in flour  and fried like the old timers used to.

 

BBB on the right, as bearcarver told me before, had no salt issues at all, great as it is.


Edited by deucenahalf - 3/7/14 at 11:16am
post #40 of 44
Thread Starter 

Just made the crackling's ...  they were gone before I could take the pic.  They were GOOD!

 

Cut the skin into small 1\4 inch chunks, placed them in an iron skillet, pizza pan on top into a 350 degree pre-heated oven for 30 min.  Fine vittles.

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