if you keep it cold and get it to 140 degrees internal temp within 4 hours when cooking you do not need cure.
What's the 'authoritative' reference to back this rule up?
I have never been able to find one.
~Martin
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if you keep it cold and get it to 140 degrees internal temp within 4 hours when cooking you do not need cure.
If you follow the rules for fresh ground meat according to the USDA I would think that would be an "authoritative reference"What's the 'authoritative' reference to back this rule up?
I have never been able to find one.
~Martin
If you follow the rules for fresh ground meat according to the USDA I would think that would be an "authoritative reference"
I have researched this and there is two references that are given:What's the 'authoritative' reference to back this rule up?
I have never been able to find one.
~Martin
I have looked into it extensively...I have read reports until my head hurt and like you have not been able to find any single Word for Word source. When you put all the info together, 40-140 in 4 is a guideline that falls within the recommendation of several authorities... Kind of like Chew each bite of Food 32 Times. Brush your Teeth after Every Meal and Get 8 Hours of Sleep per Night...You can go more or less than the Guidelines...But they are still reasonable and provide for a margin of Safety and Good Health. Have you found anything that totally discredits our Guideline/Rule? It seems to be a never ending problem with Government agencies and Grant funded Researchers... If they want to continue getting funded they have to keep playing with the numbers, find new things for us to worry about and stay just vague enough about their findings to keep everyone confused and asking for more...JJOkay, I have seen those, as well as a couple that are similar, but I've not been able to find any specific rule that says, in a nutshell, when cooking meat, "it's okay as long as 140 degrees is reached in 4 hours."
I've seen it repeated countless times, and I've researched it several times, I've yet to find a concrete and reliable reference that isn't extrapolated from some other 'rule', certainly no distinction between ground meat or whole cuts, or any other distinction for that matter.
And I've certainly never found a concrete reference to it being acceptable for uncured meat smoked at a low temperature (especially ground meat) to dwell within the perfect conditions for the growth of botulinum bacterium for an extended period of time "as long as 140 degrees is reached within 4 hours."
~Martin
Can we all agree that the 40° to 140° within 4 is a safe and viable guideline?
Martin, I have to agree there is definitely situations that 1-2 hours in the danger zone is too long never mind 4! But it would be confusing to to provide a different set of time and temp numbers for Fresh Sausage, Cured Sausage, Cured Sausage to be Dried, Chicken Parts, Whole Chicken, Ground Chicken, Whole muscle Beef, Cut Beef , Ground Beef, Injected Beef, Beef that is Punctured with potential pathogen carrying items such as, Garlic and or Fresh Herbs, Salt Brined Beef, Acid Marinated Beef, Salt Rubbed Beef, Rubbed Beef containing no Salt, Washed Beef, Unwashed Beef, then there is all the possibilities for Pork , Lamb, Poultry, Game, Shellfish, Fin Fish, Imported Seafood from questionable Sources, Vegetables...IT goes on...
Few would remember or pay attention and and not to mention all the posts that read, " I injected my Pork butt and let it warm to room temp on the counter based on member recommendations, read it somewhere here, then went into my MES at 225*. After 2 hours the Power went off for thirty minutes then came back on for 2 hours then went off again for 1 hour then back on 1 hour. then I fell asleep and when I woke the clock was blinking so there must have been another power failure. When I checked the IT the Pork was at 205*F and the Bone pulled easily. All household members are in good health and I washed the meat first...Which Guideline for Time and Temperature should I follow and...Is it safe to eat? "
I spent weeks in a Sanitation and Safety class and get 2-3 Food Safety Newsletters each day to learn and keep up to date on the handling possibilities and what could go wrong, people make millions of dollars developing HACCP Programs for major food handler and still...Stuff happens!
If you wish to research and provide Time and Temperature Guidelines for Each of the Meats and Handling Variations including relevant supporting documentation...You are welcome to do so and after review, we will Post it in a permanent Article with full credit given to you. Have at it...
The task is huge and SMF won't pay me Millions or even Pennies to do it, so in an effort to keep our members safe we have a guideline that takes many potential problems into account and boils it down to the 40 to 140 in 4 Rule...JJ
Let's not continue to question the simple rules. All it does is add confusion and increase angst. Lets use the simple rules and then when needed expand on them to teach the finer points. The 4 hour rule is perfectly fine for 90% of what we do. Sometimes chicken, seafood and wild game require additional information.