Anyone use wood pellets in their MES?

daricksta · Dec 30, 2014

susieqz said:
tun, i'm talking about sausage, ham n back bacon mostly. i thing hot smoking under 200 is best for these.

i know others here don't share my beliefs, but they feel right to me.

i'll go look at that site now.

I advise you not to worry about a PID controller. The controller on the MES isn't the greatest but that's why we use highly accurate thermometers like the Maverick ET-732 or 732--and there are other brands just as good. If and when the controller goes out on my MES I'll just buy a replacement from MB because I don't want to go through the hassle of dealing with wiring an aftermarket controller which might required drilling holes in the back of my MES. I like to keep it easy and simple. I've gotten great results from my MES in its factory configuration using the AMNPS.

Right now, Susie, I suggest you do the same: learn the smoking basics on your MES as it arrives from the factory, but use the AMNPS instead of putting wood chips in the wood chip loader. Learn about cuts of meat and seasonings and rubs and sauces. Learn some basic techniques and build from there. Get some recipes online and buy a couple of smoking books. I guarantee that within a few months you will be amazed by the quality of the Q you'll be putting on the table and you will get raves from it from the lucky people eating your barbecue.

daricksta · Dec 30, 2014

tundarum said:
The MES cold smoker kit doesn't have a motor or feeder. The smoke is generated by a 120 watt heating element. I'm not criticising the AMNPS. I think it's a great smoke generator at a great price that solves many people's problems with MES. I understand that many who already own a AMNPS have no need to get the cold smoker kit. I don't need to own a AMNPS to know everything I need to know about it. You insult my intelligence by claiming I shouldn't comment on such a simple low tech device...you can't be serious. Under normal circumstances I would not suggest the same of you commenting about the cold smoker kit which you don't own, but in this case you really shouldn't be commenting because you erroneously believed it to have a motor driven feeder which is completely false and wrong in light of the fact you claim I shouldn't comment on the AMNPS since I don't own one. If your going to make such outrageous comments, at least know what you're talking about.

My intent was not to get into an argument with you. You took it as my insulting your intelligence, which wasn't the case. You brought up the negatives of the AMNPS based on reviews you'd read but with no personal experience. My comment on this was factual and entirely justified. You took it personally is all.

As for the MB Cold Smoker, yes, I don't one one but here's the description in an ad: "Continuous-feed wood chip system provides up to 6 hours of constant, consistent smoke." Is that a motorized feed or a gravity feed system? If the electricity is used to power the heating element then, for me, I wouldn't want a separate heating element to be concerned about, but again that's for me. If I was wrong about a motorized feeder than I apologize. If I offended you I also apologize.

It's great that you've got your system set up in a way that works for you; this is what all of us are doing. But in Susie's who has a limited amount of money to spend on setting herself up and has already bought the AMNPS, I'm advising her that she already has what she needs and there's no need to start returning things for refunds just to spend additional money on other accessories or controllers or whatever. She's just starting out and already she appears to be overwhelmed. I'm just trying to walk her back and get her comfortable with what she already has.

BandCollector · Dec 30, 2014

Yikes Guys!

Happy New Year.

lanshark42 · Dec 30, 2014

daRicksta said:
I going to weigh in with Bear on your criticism of the AMNPS because to me, said owner of the pellet smoker, you're not guiding Susie in the right direction at all. Since you don't own an AMNPS you really can't comment on it with any authority; you're going off critiques you've read from just a few people. I can point to major and smaller appliances that work great in my home that some reviewers swore were pieces of junk and warned against buying them. You'll find a lot more positive reviews of the AMNPS than negative.

It's important to note that the AMNPS was designed specifically for both the MES 30 and 40 Gen 1. Some of the most experienced smokers here contributed to its R&D in their own MES units, Bearcarver being one of them, which I say makes him an expert whose advice is well worth taking.

As for the jugs of frozen water, that was one method to keep cheese from over-softening during cold smokes since it had a tendency to start melting onto the racks. Oh yes, the last time I cold smoked cheese this didn't happen; the cheese remained firm. However, the solution I'm using next time is to slightly freeze the cheese and to use QMATZ I just bought from Todd Johnson which will keep the cheese more intact. No more need for jugs of frozen water.

My biggest objection to the MB Cold Smoker--for me--is I don't want to hassle with yet another box for smoking that needs to be attached to my MES. Since I place my MES on a small table. it would be a huge hassle to try to connect the cold smoker to the wood chip loader hole. Much, much easier just to place the AMNPS inside my smoker and be done with it.

Lastly, the cold smoker has an electrical-powered feeder. That's yet another device which has to be plugged in, using yet more electricity over a smoke. Also, electrical motor can develop problems as can the feeder parts. The AMNPS is a metal tray for burning wood pellets; no moving parts and no feeding required. Will it work on smokers other than the MES? I don't know; Todd would be the one to answer this and would be happy to if anyone should ask him. He probably has already done so countless times.

To clarify, the MES cold-smoker kit DOES NOT have an "electrical-powered feeder". (Obviously, you don't own one, and maybe should follow your own advice?)

Its wood chips are gravity-fed. It requires minimal electricity for the coil used to heat the wood chips. There is no electric motor in it. As for me, I have PLENTY of space on my stand (that I found instructions for on this site) and plenty of power on my deck to supply all the electricity my smoker and its gadgets need. The kit was a SNAP to install, and works exactly as I had hoped it would.

As with almost any hobby, (and aren't we ALL hobbyists, since we like smoking so much we belong to a forum dedicated to it) there are very few absolutes and always many ways to achieve satisfactory results. I appreciate Mr. Bear's expertise, experience and willingness to help. He has helped me more than once. But his methods are not the ONLY way to be successful in smoking. To imply otherwise is a disservice to anyone new to the hobby or looking for an alternative solution to a problem.

I certainly can appreciate the FIERCE loyalty and defense Todd and his products engender. But his is NOT the only viable solution when it comes to cold smoking or just adding additional smoke duration to an MES smoker. I'll say it again:

To.Each.His.Own.

Bearcarver · Dec 30, 2014

tundarum said:
You laid the foundation, not I. Don't blame me for something you started. I'd be a very rich man for every time someone used that line after painting their self into a corner.

Yeah--Sure----Unless you go back to post #203, where you stated the first of this discussion, by saying:

Quite frankly, I don't understand why more MES owners don't use the Masterbuilt Cold Smoker kit. I've had one for a while and it solved all my Masterbuilt smoking issues. It works great for both cold and hot smoking as well as provide hours of smoke with one load.

Your opening statement seems to me to be saying that Your way is better, and all the MES owners are doing it wrong in using the AMNPS, because you can get both hot & cold smoking as well as hours of smoke with one load. You don't seem to know that that's what the AMNPS does.

I wasn't coming back into this, but now you want to blame "daRicksta" for starting this thing between the AMNPS & the Masterbuilt cold smoker.

They're both Great, so you use yours & others will use theirs.

It's as simple as that.

And don't think I don't notice your little wise comments on other threads trying to drag me into a fight. Been there Done that.

Bear

tjohnson · Dec 30, 2014

WOW!

I've followed this thread long enough, and have to jump in.

December marks our 5th anniversary, and I can tell you NOBODY has as many hours on a MES as I have in my log books!

I personally own 4 of them, along with 3 pellet grills and a number of other smokers I use for testing my gadgets. Last count, I have 13 smokers in my herd.

There were many days where I had 3-4 MES running 24 hours, testing my gadgets and different sawdust and/or pellets.

For tundarum to make a claim that external smoker generators are the only method that's acceptable, is totally wrong!

It may be true that some commercial smokers may use an external smoke generator, but not all or them do. Many are fueled with wood for both heat and smoke. Old Hickory Smokers use both gas and wood. Fast Eddy's uses pellets for both smoke and heat. Last time I checked, Famous Dave's Restaurants up here in the Midwest uses wood inside their smokers to provide the smoke. So, don't profess you are the know all of smoke generators, when you have not even scratched the surface.

I've worked with a number of manufacturers in designing a way to use my gadgets INSIDE their smokers. Not a single one of these manufactures uses an external smoke generator.

Smoke is Smoke

Where you create it is immaterial

How you create it is the better question!

Moisture and lack of oxygen contribute to creosote and other chemicals contaminating your food

You need 3 things to create fire

- Fuel

- Oxygen

- Ignition Source

Take away any one of these and you cannot produce fire

Without fire, you cannot produce smoke

Take away the oxygen, and you have wood gasification, with the end result that you made charcoal

We make GREAT Products, and I stand by them 100%!!!

Todd Johnson

Owner - A-MAZE-N Products

lanshark42 · Dec 30, 2014

Hmmmmmm... What a shame you don't have enough confidence in your product to speak only on it's merits, but have to take pokes at your competition. That speaks volumes....

BandCollector · Dec 30, 2014

LANShark42 said:
Hmmmmmm... What a shame you don't have enough confidence in your product to speak only on it's merits, but have to take pokes at your competition. That speaks volumes....

Pokes at competitors?

Hmmmmmm....Seems as though Todd has done enough research and experimentation to appreciate that his competitors had to come up with something to assist their customers as well as his products have!

Happy New Year All, John

tjohnson · Dec 30, 2014

BandCollector said:
Pokes at competitors?

Hmmmmmm....Seems as though Todd did enough research and experimentation to realize that his competitors had to come up with something to assist their customers as well as his products have!

Happy New Year All, John

Now that's the truth!

We've been at this for 5 years because I figured out a way to capitalize on the shortfalls of every electric smoker, not just the Masterbuilt.

I invented my first gadget because I was tired of throwing chips in my Masterbuilt every 30 minutes. Besides, I had a real job during the day, and I did not have the luxury of sitting around and watching my MES cook my food. I just knew there was a better way

FYI....I still have my original MES that I purchased in November 2009 and it works flawlessly!

I own 2 patents and a 3rd one will be issued shortly.

I have enough confidence to take a crazy idea, and take it to market.

I have plenty of confidence sir!

pineywoods · Dec 30, 2014

The next insult hurled in this thread will be your last on this site if you can't debate things without insults then don't comment at all

pineywoods · Dec 30, 2014

This is a family friendly site friendly being one of the key words we don't all agree on everything but we keep it civil if you can't do that then I suggest you find another site to post on because your not going to last here.

It never ceases to amaze me when people think their way and their setup is the best there is and there is no other way but their way. Guess what you are full of crap there are many ways of doing things and yours isn't the only way.

Now on to Todd and Amazen Products they are a site sponsor and will be treated accordingly if you don't like their products that's fine with Admin and I'm sure is fine with Todd and Rhonda but don't insult or down them on this site. If you think you have a better product that you use that's fine mention it (don't post a commercial link unless they are a sponsor) and maybe some people will agree with you.

bmudd14474 · Dec 30, 2014

And 1 more thing to add to this is the original topic. This conversation had gone way off course from the original questions that was asked.

Please keep that in mind when going down these roads. You can always create your own thread and not derail the original.

chef jimmyj · Dec 31, 2014

susieqz said:
tun, i'm talking about sausage, ham n back bacon mostly. i thing hot smoking under 200 is best for these.

i know others here don't share my beliefs, but they feel right to me.

i'll go look at that site now.

I have to add a caution here...DO NOT Smoke any Sausage at a temp less than 225°F if it does not contain a Nitrite Cure. Further more, there are exceptions that require an extensive knowledge of Safe Food Handling and Traditional Curing Techniques but the same 225°F smoker temp applies to all meats that are not cured.

Susieqz, You made the right choice coming here and we are happy to have you. SMF is the only site that welcomes newbies with tons of questions, free of ridicule, and most here will bend over backwards to help you get going. From following this thread, I can see you are excited about our Art and want to hit the ground running. That's great but you need to WALK before you run. Dave's Dimmer Mod is inexpensive, well designed and will make your model MES work well, add it. The AMNPS was designed for the MES, is inexpensive and works flawlessly. Get a good Thermometer like the MAV 732/733 or other if you didn't already. Beyond that please slow down. Learn the smoker, Learn how to make great smoked meat, Chicken and Pork are good starters, then get into the Sausage and Curing side of what we do. These advanced meat preparations and smoking techniques can make you very sick or even dead if not done properly. I and many others here have been Smoking and Curing meat 25+ years and WE ALL still learn new things from each other and spend countless hours researching before trying new preparations and techniques. You are most welcome here. Be safe and start enjoying what you have before spending hundreds of dollars more. I hope this is helpful...JJ

daricksta · Dec 31, 2014

LANShark42 said:
Hmmmmmm... What a shame you don't have enough confidence in your product to speak only on it's merits, but have to take pokes at your competition. That speaks volumes....

Todd has competition? As far as I'm concerned, he has none.

daricksta · Dec 31, 2014

Bearcarver said:
Yeah--Sure----Unless you go back to post #203, where you stated the first of this discussion, by saying:

Quite frankly, I don't understand why more MES owners don't use the Masterbuilt Cold Smoker kit. I've had one for a while and it solved all my Masterbuilt smoking issues. It works great for both cold and hot smoking as well as provide hours of smoke with one load.

Your opening statement seems to me to be saying that Your way is better, and all the MES owners are doing it wrong in using the AMNPS, because you can get both hot & cold smoking as well as hours of smoke with one load. You don't seem to know that that's what the AMNPS does.

I wasn't coming back into this, but now you want to blame "daRicksta" for starting this thing between the AMNPS & the Masterbuilt cold smoker.

They're both Great, so you use yours & others will use theirs.

It's as simple as that.

And don't think I don't notice your little wise comments on other threads trying to drag me into a fight. Been there Done that.

Bear

Gee, Bear, this used to be such a friendly place. Wonder why some people don't get that they don't have to post the first comment they type and if they choose to do so out of rashness, the Edit button can make that comment all better and friendly. Thanks for stepping in but I wasn't having any part of a tussle here; I have adequate self-control to prevent such behavior. OK, I was wrong about how the MB Cold Smoker worked, I admitted it, apologized and moved on. No big deal.

I think you and I might have differed in opinions on smoking technique or equipment a couple of times but we kept it civil. I've never read you put down anything anyone else is using or doing. You remain one of my "go-to" guys for info and I recommend you to newbies.

Yeah, we all have our own equipment and smoking technique preferences, and some of us think we know more than the other guy. When I talk about the AMNPS, I never claim it's better than the Cold Smoker; I am very clear on why I prefer the AMNPS over the Cold Smoker for me. OK, someone else can fit both an MES and the cold smoker on one cart; that's fine for them but it won't work for me. The Cold Smoker may not draw much wattage but the AMNPS draws none at all. Again, this is what works for and is important to me.

I've seen two threads get ugly in this forum because some people don't edit themselves before they post and refuse to do it afterwards. This type of childish behavior needs to be kept off here. That's what Facebook is for...

susieqz · Dec 31, 2014

WOW! YOU GUYS GET INTENSE.

i thot this thread was locked but since it isn't, thanks tons, jj.

i'll be careful. but i gotta tell you, based on the ham i cured, i'm gonna do lots of curing. it's really fun.

i'll reserve low temp smoking for cured meats.

safety warnings are important, because i was thinking of trying uncured meats under 200. now, i won't.

daricksta · Dec 31, 2014

susieqz said:
WOW! YOU GUYS GET INTENSE.

i thot this thread was locked but since it isn't, thanks tons, jj.

i'll be careful. but i gotta tell you, based on the ham i cured, i'm gonna do lots of curing. it's really fun.

i'll reserve low temp smoking for cured meats.

safety warnings are important, because i was thinking of trying uncured meats under 200. now, i won't.

Since you're a real, full-fledged member of this group, Susie, you can't get away with merely telling us you cured a ham. What you need to tell us, well--me, is how you cured it; the ingredients you used for the cure, and the steps that you took including the cooking process. I've never cured meat and I know I can find online articles about it but I'd love to know how you did it.

chef jimmyj · Dec 31, 2014

susieqz said:
WOW! YOU GUYS GET INTENSE.

i thot this thread was locked but since it isn't, thanks tons, jj.

i'll be careful. but i gotta tell you, based on the ham i cured, i'm gonna do lots of curing. it's really fun.

i'll reserve low temp smoking for cured meats.

safety warnings are important, because i was thinking of trying uncured meats under 200. now, i won't.

No problem, we love people like yourself that are passionate about smoking and curing. The powers that be keep me around to watch everybody's back. You will be great at this stuff in short order and someday be one of the valued Guru's. It is always a good idea to post a new plan for review, especially pulling some crazy recipe or technique off the web. Please don't hesitate to PM myself or another trusted member with any question or technique you would like to try...JJ

susieqz · Dec 31, 2014

rick, i didn't think anyone would be interested in my efforts, but if you are, here goes.

i wanted to use dave's method n sorta did, but i didn't have a metric scale so i had to approximate. plus my smoker won't get to the low temps he uses. still, my theory is that keeping temps under 212 will get close.

anyway, i whipped up some of dave's cure, but added 4 cups of raw brown sugar because i never follow recipes. this turned out super. the ham had just a hint of sweetness.

i plopped the ham in a turkey brining bag for 10 days. on day 3 i injected it because ups lost the first injector so i had amazon

send another. i was trying to inject 10% of the ham's weight but it was my first time. it was messy n lots squirted out, but i kept at it, mostly adding lots around the bone to prevent something called bone sour.

i know some recipes call for curing ham for a month but 10 days was perfect.

i started the smoke just before bed, getting up every 2 hours to add pellets. turns out, this all nighter wasn't necessary, because an 8 1/2 lb half ham took only 12 hours. i'll start the next one in the morn.

i can't tell you what temps i smoked at. i was trying for 180 but the traeger went crazy. the first 3 hours were at 190. the next 4 around 111, then it jumped to 365. i gave up n set it to 225 for the rest of the smoke, because that temp the traeger will hold.

it smoked for 12 hours n 15 minutes n the IT hit 170, lots higher than i wanted, but i fell asleep.

despite the problems, this was the best ham ever. i expected curing meat to be hard, but it was easy n fun fun fun. i enjoy curing as much as i do smoking.

next week i'll start curing some pork loin to make pea meal bacon. when i added the extra sugar i had back bacon in mind anyway.

you gotta try this.

davidhef88 · Dec 31, 2014

Thanks piney for taking controll of this thread. There were a few threads like this a while back that pushed me away from SMF for a couple months. Thanks also guys for keeping fairly cool heads when one of our own was being attacked. Also thanks Todd for all you do here at SMF and busting in with all the facts. Hope you all have a great 2015.

Anyone use wood pellets in their MES?

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