Thermoworks RFX First Impressions

[jimboc22]

It took 24 hours for the gateway to discharge from 88% to 17%. I plugged it in to the supplied wall charger around 8pm last night, and at 8 am this morning it's back up to only 84%. Still not sure how I feel about the charging, but at least the discharge rate is acceptable.

Played around with the Signals again yesterday, it took 12 hours to go from 100% to 19%, charged it overnight at the same time as the RFX gateway and it's at 100% this morning. I'll probably just continue to keep that one plugged in during use.

 

[jimboc22]

Had some time this morning so I chatted with Thermoworks regardinng charging the gateway. Here is their reply...

"The RFX Gateway is designed to charge to approximately 85% of the battery's absolute capacity rather than 100% of the battery's absolute capacity. This is intended to extend the life of the battery and allow you to use it considerably longer without experiencing any kind of drop or decrease in battery performance. Moving forward, this essentially means that when your battery percentage indicator shows approximately 85%, it is fully charged.

While the battery is not being pushed to its absolute capacity, your RFX Gateway should still be able to hold a charge for the advertised 24 hours once it reaches 85%. Please let us know if that is not the case.

As a heads up, we are working on a fix in the app so the battery percentage will show 100% once the RFX Gateway has been fully charged as that is more useful to customers than it telling you the percentage of the battery's absolute capacity that's been charged."

Would have been nice to know this ahead of time. Makes perfect sense, and it did actually cross my mind, but I thought they would have already implemented that at the release. Not like they didn't have 3 months to work on the app while we all waited for them to ship.

 

[Fraser]

Had some time this morning so I chatted with Thermoworks regardinng charging the gateway. Here is their reply...

"The RFX Gateway is designed to charge to approximately 85% of the battery's absolute capacity rather than 100% of the battery's absolute capacity. This is intended to extend the life of the battery and allow you to use it considerably longer without experiencing any kind of drop or decrease in battery performance. Moving forward, this essentially means that when your battery percentage indicator shows approximately 85%, it is fully charged.

While the battery is not being pushed to its absolute capacity, your RFX Gateway should still be able to hold a charge for the advertised 24 hours once it reaches 85%. Please let us know if that is not the case.

As a heads up, we are working on a fix in the app so the battery percentage will show 100% once the RFX Gateway has been fully charged as that is more useful to customers than it telling you the percentage of the battery's absolute capacity that's been charged."

Would have been nice to know this ahead of time. Makes perfect sense, and it did actually cross my mind, but I thought they would have already implemented that at the release. Not like they didn't have 3 months to work on the app while we all waited for them to ship.

Would also be nice to display charge% while charging.

 

[dr k]

Had some time this morning so I chatted with Thermoworks regardinng charging the gateway. Here is their reply...

"The RFX Gateway is designed to charge to approximately 85% of the battery's absolute capacity rather than 100% of the battery's absolute capacity. This is intended to extend the life of the battery and allow you to use it considerably longer without experiencing any kind of drop or decrease in battery performance. Moving forward, this essentially means that when your battery percentage indicator shows approximately 85%, it is fully charged.

While the battery is not being pushed to its absolute capacity, your RFX Gateway should still be able to hold a charge for the advertised 24 hours once it reaches 85%. Please let us know if that is not the case.

As a heads up, we are working on a fix in the app so the battery percentage will show 100% once the RFX Gateway has been fully charged as that is more useful to customers than it telling you the percentage of the battery's absolute capacity that's been charged."

Would have been nice to know this ahead of time. Makes perfect sense, and it did actually cross my mind, but I thought they would have already implemented that at the release. Not like they didn't have 3 months to work on the app while we all waited for them to ship.

It's like selecting the battery protection on my Samsung phone since keeping the battery lithium ions and electrons on the anode side 100% (fully charged) or all on the cathode side 0% (completely discharged) can shorten the life of the battery. The basic protection is a phone charged to 100% and stops charging until it discharges to 95%, then charges to 100% again as it stays plugged in. Maximum protection is charge to 80% and it stops charging and stays at 80% as it stays plugged in. Adaptive protection is Maximum protection when sleeping and switches to basic when you wake up based on your usage patterns as it stays plugged in. You can also turn off protection so it keeps it at 100% if constantly plugged in. If you use one of the three battery protections you should start charging when you discharge down to 20% vs lower (they don't tell you to do this other than searching battery health.) Since my phone battery capacity is 5,000mah it lasts three days on stand by with charging to 80% unless using apps. It's good Thermoworks is maximizing the battery heath but not informing people creates more questions than answers. When they go to the 100% display it will probably have the 15% battery protection you'll never know about, being out of sight out of mind which is good thing.

 

[jimboc22]

It's good Thermoworks is maximizing the battery heath but not informing people creates more questions than answers. When they go to the 100% display it will probably have the 15% battery protection you'll never know about, being out of sight out of mind which is good thing.

I agree, and this did cross my mind because I have an older EV from 2016. It only charges to 80% of the battery capacity, so when it's at 80%, it shows full.

But when the manual says to fully charge, I take 'full' as meaning 100%. Again, not a deal breaker in anyway, just a little annoying. They'll update the app and most people will never notice, just one of the joys of being an early adopter of a new product.

 

[bwana_don]

Thermoworks support did respond to an email I sent. Sent it at 4:00 am, there response was at 1:30 PM central. I suspect they are a little overwelmed with a new product launch, might be why they are slow rolling delivery. In any event the temporary fix to see the yellow "next" icon on the "Power on rfx gateway" page is to go into settings on your phone, go to display and depending on the phone turn it off or mimimize using the slider. Once the rfx gateway is set up you can return your display back to it's original settings.

 

[Ansio]

So for me. It's not the best. After all the ads they put out trashing the competition. They are just liars in the end.

Mine drops.

I did my first cook a rotisserie porn loin roast. On a weber kettle with no lid on. I never went more than 25 feet from the gateway and my router was 16 feet from the gateway, it was situated between me and the gateway/probe.

It worked fine right up until the end. It reached 141 then stopped updating. After a few minutes I grabbed my thermapen and temped it at 146, over shot a little.

The whole time from 141 to the end of the rest it never updated. On the app it just said inactive.

This is the last email I got from the company after they tried to troubleshoot it on Saturday.

They knee when they released it that it did not work as advertised, as they pushed it.

 

[schlotz]

Spoke with Thermoworks. They are aware that the setup process uses a too large screen thus disabling the next button on some phones. They expect an app update in the next couple of days. Short solution here since I couldn't setup the gateway on my iphone 13 mini was to use the wifes iphone 15 pro max. I see above the ipad is another option. Either way, once setup you can go back to your phone and both the gateway and probe will show up as ready to use. One odd thing was trying to setup the probe. Multiple tries ended in failure notice. I got out of the app, came back in and the probe was there. Hmm... definitely a setup glitch. Oh well. Everything is now there and working. Now to decide what to smoke next!

 

[jimboc22]

In any event the temporary fix to see the yellow "next" icon on the "Power on rfx gateway" page is to go into settings on your phone, go to display and depending on the phone turn it off or mimimize using the slider.

Thank you for posting this work around. I actually used it yesterday for a completely different app I was trying to setup. I couldn't find the 'Submit" button, thought of you and went to my phone's display options and minimized the display. It worked and I was able to setup that app!

 

[bwana_don]

Curios what others are seeing for battery life with the meat probes? What is a fair test? What should the settings be? I put a fully charged one in the refrigerator, it lasted 10 hours and was inactive. I left one on the table fully charged, it warned of low battery just under 12 hours? Refrigerator I can understand being a low number of hours, on the table I would have like to seen 4 times as long.

 

[schlotz]

Curios what others are seeing for battery life with the meat probes? What is a fair test? What should the settings be? I put a fully charged one in the refrigerator, it lasted 10 hours and was inactive. I left one on the table fully charged, it warned of low battery just under 12 hours? Refrigerator I can understand being a low number of hours, on the table I would have like to seen 4 times as long.

If smoking low & slow I don't see any reason to have it report every minute. Push that interval out to multiple minutes between reporting.

 

[Fraser]

So, for my first RFX cook, I made Country Ribs. I figured the (relatively) high cook and submerged braise would test the probe. Apologies in advance for scanty data; my first CR and first RFX cook, and fairly new to the YS640S also.


These were bone-in. Seasoned up with MC Holy Cow, Tiger Sauce binder. RFX probe in middle rib.

Placed the Gateway unpowered on the hopper, pit probe on second shelf.
Ribs on at 225F for 45 minutes smoke bath. Then set pit to 295F until 165F. All monitored on my iPad 110+ feet away, indoors.

then into the braise. As you can see, the RFX was mostly submerged. Set alarm for 195F, covered in foil and let roll.

Thru liquid, aluminum and Yoders 10ga chassis the RFX never blinked. But I wasn’t done testing yet.


I decided to add a bit of color to the ribs (and test the RFX further) by direct grilling them. Notice the access door is ajar; they’re over open fire.

After a 3+ hour cook the Gateway read 56% battery (from 86% ‘full’) and the probe at 80% battery (from 100%).

All in all, an impressive first run. Very happy with my RFX.

 

[Fraser]

Oops, forgot the money shot:

 

[bwana_don]

If smoking low & slow I don't see any reason to have it report every minute. Push that interval out to multiple minutes between reporting.

I guess I am a little confused. Could be the lack of clear documentation and some possible application bugs...

The RFX Meat Probes have dynamic transmissions based on the temperature change 1, 1.5, 2 and 3 degrees. The RFX getway has a setting of 15, 30 and 60 seconds for the pro series probe (when I use my phone) and shows 15, 30, seconds then 1, 2, 3 4 5 minutes (on my lap top). Sadly my phone refers to the Pro-Series Probe Transmission Interval Rate and my lap top refers to RFX Transmission Rate - "how often the devices transmit to the cloud". Looks like I stumbled in to multiple issues related to their applications - phone app does not match web application settings for RFX. I think they should be showing both settings (Pro Series Probe) and RFX Getway devises transmission to the cloud. Odd that they are showing different settings. It would seem the dynamic temperature per Meat Probe should determine the battery life for each probe. It would make sense to me that the RFX Gate way is sending what ever is last reported by any device to the cloud for all devices. The setting on the gateway is for all devices and reporting to the cloud, if that determines the battery life for meat probes it would apply to all connected devices and would rule out the ability to do a low and slow with one device and fast cook with another.

I tried another test with all 4 of my probes, set each probe dynamic transmission rate differently. RFX getway was plugged in for the duration. The results were not at all what I expected.

Probe, Setting, Battery life
1, 1, almost 12 hours
2 , 1.5, about 8 hours
3, 2, about 8 hours
4, 3, almost 11 hours

The test was with each probe sitting on the table (reading air temp) about an 1" apart. Air temp ranged from 73.5 to 75.

Wished I had plugged in the Pro Series probe to the Getway, and track that as well against the Meat Probes, looked like they were reporting lower temperatures as the batteries drained.

I would really like to verify that I can get a 24+ hour reading before I start doing some of my longer smokes - snack sticks made from bear meat - very important that I can trust the temperature and time to avoid trichinosis concerns. I do my briskets at 215, depending on size they can easily go 24+ hours.

I have reached out to Thermoworks to get clarification on settings. I did not realize there was a difference in what the settings options/mismatch between the setting options on the web applications verses the pone application at that time. I am just not seeing anything that makes me believe 40 to 60 hours is possible so far.

 

[Fraser]

I guess I am a little confused. Could be the lack of clear documentation and some possible application bugs...

The RFX Meat Probes have dynamic transmissions based on the temperature change 1, 1.5, 2 and 3 degrees. The RFX getway has a setting of 15, 30 and 60 seconds for the pro series probe (when I use my phone) and shows 15, 30, seconds then 1, 2, 3 4 5 minutes (on my lap top). Sadly my phone refers to the Pro-Series Probe Transmission Interval Rate and my lap top refers to RFX Transmission Rate - "how often the devices transmit to the cloud". Looks like I stumbled in to multiple issues related to their applications - phone app does not match web application settings for RFX. I think they should be showing both settings (Pro Series Probe) and RFX Getway devises transmission to the cloud. Odd that they are showing different settings. It would seem the dynamic temperature per Meat Probe should determine the battery life for each probe. It would make sense to me that the RFX Gate way is sending what ever is last reported by any device to the cloud for all devices. The setting on the gateway is for all devices and reporting to the cloud, if that determines the battery life for meat probes it would apply to all connected devices and would rule out the ability to do a low and slow with one device and fast cook with another.

I tried another test with all 4 of my probes, set each probe dynamic transmission rate differently. RFX getway was plugged in for the duration. The results were not at all what I expected.

Probe, Setting, Battery life
1, 1, almost 12 hours
2 , 1.5, about 8 hours
3, 2, about 8 hours
4, 3, almost 11 hours

The test was with each probe sitting on the table (reading air temp) about an 1" apart. Air temp ranged from 73.5 to 75.

Wished I had plugged in the Pro Series probe to the Getway, and track that as well against the Meat Probes, looked like they were reporting lower temperatures as the batteries drained.

I would really like to verify that I can get a 24+ hour reading before I start doing some of my longer smokes - snack sticks made from bear meat - very important that I can trust the temperature and time to avoid trichinosis concerns. I do my briskets at 215, depending on size they can easily go 24+ hours.

I have reached out to Thermoworks to get clarification on settings. I did not realize there was a difference in what the settings options/mismatch between the setting options on the web applications verses the pone application at that time. I am just not seeing anything that makes me believe 40 to 60 hours is possible so far.

Let’s consider what the Gateway does: 1) Reports the Pro-Series Probe (PSP) reading to the cloud. 2) relays RFX MEAT probe(s) readings to the cloud.
My understanding is the first is (fairly) straightforward, it reports the reading from the PSP according to the interval setting (15, 30 or 60 seconds). That’s it, no other transmissions implied.

The second function is to relay readings from the various RFX MEAT probe(s) to the cloud. More on that in a moment.

Let’s consider the RFX MEAT probe(s). Their function is to report the temperature(s) from the 4 thermistors (precisely how is not important right now) to the Gateway via 433Mhz. Exactly when and how often this occurs is specified as “minimum of 1 second intervals to maximum of 60 second intervals”. Further, a transmission may be triggered as specified in the Temperature-Based Temperature Interval (TBTI). The TBTI for each probeis user-specified (1, 1.5, 2 or 3F) and may be set independently for each probe.

So, each probe will transmit upon TBTI delta or 60 seconds whichever is sooner. I suspect that is why your test results came out the way they did; there was little temp change, so all probes were transmitting only once per minute or so.

Back to the Gateway’s #2 job: To relay readings from the various RFX MEAT probe(s) to the cloud. TW claims the Gateway can service “50+ probes simultaneously“. Precisely how it accomplishes this is unknown (instantaneous, burst transmission, whatever. Probably not relevant to us).

Once all this data is in the cloud, the app(s) can access and display it. I suppose different platforms might handle/display the information differently but I don’t have any experience with the PC version. I suspect TW will refine the apps in future to integrate more closely.

Hope this helps!

-Fraser

 

[bwana_don]

Let’s consider what the Gateway does: 1) Reports the Pro-Series Probe (PSP) reading to the cloud. 2) relays RFX MEAT probe(s) readings to the cloud.
My understanding is the first is (fairly) straightforward, it reports the reading from the PSP according to the interval setting (15, 30 or 60 seconds). That’s it, no other transmissions implied.

The second function is to relay readings from the various RFX MEAT probe(s) to the cloud. More on that in a moment.

Let’s consider the RFX MEAT probe(s). Their function is to report the temperature(s) from the 4 thermistors (precisely how is not important right now) to the Gateway via 433Mhz. Exactly when and how often this occurs is specified as “minimum of 1 second intervals to maximum of 60 second intervals”. Further, a transmission may be triggered as specified in the Temperature-Based Temperature Interval (TBTI). The TBTI for each probeis user-specified (1, 1.5, 2 or 3F) and may be set independently for each probe.

So, each probe will transmit upon TBTI delta or 60 seconds whichever is sooner. I suspect that is why your test results came out the way they did; there was little temp change, so all probes were transmitting only once per minute or so.

Back to the Gateway’s #2 job: To relay readings from the various RFX MEAT probe(s) to the cloud. TW claims the Gateway can service “50+ probes simultaneously“. Precisely how it accomplishes this is unknown (instantaneous, burst transmission, whatever. Probably not relevant to us).

Once all this data is in the cloud, the app(s) can access and display it. I suppose different platforms might handle/display the information differently but I don’t have any experience with the PC version. I suspect TW will refine the apps in future to integrate more closely.

Hope this helps!

-Fraser

You definetly stated it much more elegant than I did...I believe we are on the same page as to what the settings are doing on each device and their respective impact. I agree that the RFX Meat Probes were sending the once/minute given the lack of temperature change. I don't see anyway to increase the interval/reduce the number of transmission from the RFX meat probe.

With that in mind I am only seeing 8 - 12 hours out of the probes.
1. Not seeing anywhere close to 60 hours batterly life they claim on a full charge.
2. Not sure why there is a 50% difference in battery life on the probes - they are brand new.

Am I missing a setting somewhere?
Is measuring air temperature at releatively consistent temperature a valid test?

Don

 

[jimboc22]

I used the RFX for the second time yesterday. Low battery alarm on the gateway went off at 17% after only 4 hours and 48 minutes of being turned on. One meat probe and one ambient probe hooked up set to 60 second intervals. I took it straight out of the case and didn't check what the charge was when I started, although when I put it away after the last use it was 'full' at 88%. I'm going to give it a few more uses before contacting them, hopefully it was a one off.

 

[bwana_don]

You definetly stated it much more elegant than I did...I believe we are on the same page as to what the settings are doing on each device and their respective impact. I agree that the RFX Meat Probes were sending the once/minute given the lack of temperature change. I don't see anyway to increase the interval/reduce the number of transmission from the RFX meat probe.

With that in mind I am only seeing 8 - 12 hours out of the probes.
1. Not seeing anywhere close to 60 hours batterly life they claim on a full charge.
2. Not sure why there is a 50% difference in battery life on the probes - they are brand new.

Am I missing a setting somewhere?
Is measuring air temperature at releatively consistent temperature a valid test?

Don

I heard back from Thermoworks support today, saddly, I don't think it is good news. I have also found some additional software bugs. I have found 5 or 6 bugs so far and have confirmed the RFX Meat Thermometers are not working as promised. I would really like to see someone test and share the results of the battery life with their probes.

From Thermoworks
"I appreciate all the testing you've done with your probes already. If you're willing, we'd also like to get the serial numbers of all four probes for our Product Development team.

Our Product Development team is actively looking into your issue and it will take them a few business days to resolve it.

To answer your basic questions:

1- The battery life duration you experienced is abnormal given the conditions of your testing.
2- That is a fair test.
3- There is not a transmission setting that you're missing."


I had done another test on Sunday and shared the following data with them.

Probe, Setting, Start of test, End of test/inactive due to dead battery, Serial#, Events, Readings, Other

1, 1, 9:06:58 AM 10:21:53 PM, M100006599, 2 - identical, 3955, Low battery alert has a date of January 20 at 6:44:44 PM

2, 1.5, 9:07:13 AM, 6:25:41 PM, M100009080, 2 – identical, 2700, Low battery alert before pulling it out of the charger 4:34:40 PM , changed to Jan 20 6:44:33PM when looking at history within session. Suspect this happened to all of them.

3, 2, 9:07:05 AM, 6:36:30 PM, M100006601, 2 - identical, 2725, Low battery alert has a date of January 20 at6:44:33 PM

4, 3, 9:06:50 AM, 9:21:16 PM, M100006598, 2 – identical, 3540, Low battery alert has a date of January 20 at 6:44:42 PM

My interpretation...
The number of readings being sent seems excessive, also if the number of readings dictates how long the batteries are going to last, it looks like there are some significant differences based on serial number - m100006598 and ...6599 provided a higher number of readings and lasted longer.

The session data while it is active and/or has ran out of battery will report a different date and time then when the session is recognized as ended (in the case of a battery dying it needs to charge and then be pulled out of the charger), at that point it assigned January 20 and what looks like a sequential time stamp to me - each probe alert was incremented by 1 second on that alert time stamp when looked at in history. When the session was active it was reporting the correct time and date for the alert.

At the moment, my first impressions is much less than satisfactory. I went with the RFX pre-buy the day it came out, was litterally going to pull the trigger on a Smoke X because I want the range. Wishing I had gone with the Smoke and waited at this point. I have some long cooks and smokes coming uo for holidays and the thermometers as they are currently workinig will not meet my need. Customer support has been great! Product development and testing leave a bit to be desired.

Don

 

[schlotz]

I took the liberty of pointing out this thread to their customer service manager.

 

[bwana_don]

Feeling a little bit sorry for them given that I am pointing out issues with battery life related to the RFX Meat Probes, and others are pointing out issues with battery life related to the RFX Gateway.

I have not even started to try distance or obstructions like my pig roaster (another cook that can easily go 16 hours with a 200+ pounder).

Hoping that at least part of the issue with RFX Meat Probes are software issues related to the transmission rate that can be resolved with an update. Since there is such a drastic difference between the meat probes that I received (literally 50% in battery life and # of readings reported) and it appears that it is tied to serial#. I fear there might be a quality issue with batteries.

I really like the amount of detail I can see when using the web interface. It allows me to look at all transmissions for each session, 3955 in one case, it includes times stamps and temperature. From what I am seeing probes are transmitting once a minute regardless of the temperature interval setting I chose. The only thing set to 1 minute, the highest interval available on my android is the setting for the RFX-Gateway. I have been told by support that the setting on my android – labeled Pro-Series Probe and the setting on the web interface labeled Transmission Interval are the same setting. 3 options on my android 15, 30, 60 seconds, 7 options the web interface that go up to 5 minutes.

I had told myself I was done testing, but after typing this I tried setting the “transmission interval” to 5 minutes from the web interface.

Wondered what it would look like on phone after I did that, it showed options of 15, 30, 60 second (yes they have a typo, should say seconds) and 5 minutes. Changed it back to 60 second, stilled showed the same thing – 15, 30, 60 and 5. Guess I could force populate the rest of the options myself or not. Selected 5 minutes again, ran a 17 minute, showed readings at least once a minute – 1 reading for each thermometer in the probe and the average reading. So 5 readings were logged for the session at least once every minute. Did not have anything to do the temperature interval or the 5 minutes I selected on the gateway. Hmmmmmm.