Opinions on Pellet grills

[SlowmotionQue]

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My own observations after owning a PID and non PID grills, and eating food from several other of both styles is this. PID's I've worked with appear to have more continuous smoke during operation. Non PID's produce more intermittent smoke that is much heavier during smoke phase, and lighter to non-existing during the non smoke phase. The net amount of smoke produced during the cook is probably about the same, and the amount of smoke flavor is indistinguishable by me.

The non PID grills I've experienced are my CC, and other friends Traegers. PID grill are a few different Memphis's and a RecTec, both of which use Roanoke controllers which pulse the fan to produce more smoke and keep it in the chamber longer. Obviously, other makes/models might produce different results.

This is sort of what I suspected.

Pellets don't know whether they're being burned in a PID controlled grill or a non PID controlled grill.

My own observation is that pellets, no matter what they are being burned in, produce less smoke the hotter they are being burned.

It would seem to me that a burn at a lower and steady temperature, would produce smoke as well as, if not better than, a burn with widely fluctuation temperatures.

Some of what causes my skepticism here is the Grilla Grills situation.

In the time period "before" they were offering a grill with a PID controller in it, their marketing was more focused on the notion that PID controlled grills offered less smoke taste to food, and the implication was that their non PID controlled grills offered a smoke taste advantage.

In other words, if you wanted the best smoke tasting food, then you'd have to tolerate the wide temperature swings that are typically attributable to non PID controlled grills .

The purchasing public apparently must not have been buying that notion across the board.

However now they are offering a grill with a PID controlled option.

That sounds strange to me.

If the position that food cooked on PID controlled grills somehow tasted less than what it ought to, because temps were "too steady" and did not fluctuate widely, well then why now offer grills that come with such controllers? Why offer grills which would produce inferior tasting food?

This leads me to believe that this claim was BS to begin with. If they believed it so much, well then why now start selling grills which would produce "worse" tasting food?

 

[ameskimo1]

This is sort of what I suspected.

Pellets don't know whether they're being burned in a PID controlled grill or a non PID controlled grill.

My own observation is that pellets, no matter what they are being burned in, produce less smoke the hotter they are being burned.

It would seem to me that a burn at a lower and steady temperature, would produce smoke as well as, if not better than, a burn with widely fluctuation temperatures.

Some of what causes my skepticism here is the Grilla Grills situation.

In the time period "before" they were offering a grill with a PID controller in it, their marketing was more focused on the notion that PID controlled grills offered less smoke taste to food, and the implication was that their non PID controlled grills offered a smoke taste advantage.

In other words, if you wanted the best smoke tasting food, then you'd have to tolerate the wide temperature swings that are typically attributable to non PID controlled grills .

The purchasing public apparently must not have been buying that notion across the board.

However now they are offering a grill with a PID controlled option.

That sounds strange to me.

If the position that food cooked on PID controlled grills somehow tasted less than what it ought to, because temps were "too steady" and did not fluctuate widely, well then why now offer grills that come with such controllers? Why offer grills which would produce inferior tasting food?

This leads me to believe that this claim was BS to begin with. If they believed it so much, well then why now start selling grills which would produce "worse" tasting food?

Actually, if you read into it, you will find your answer to the question. Rather than continue the battle with the PID crowd and the ever raging debate over PID or non, they simply developed a controller that does both. Now you can cook with whichever method you like on the same grill. PID to some also has a benefit of holding 180 for things like jerky - although my non PID has had no problem making jerky. I have the Silverbac and can tell you without a doubt it has temperature swings, just like it is designed to do but they are by no means wild as you say. Talk to some owners and you will find out exactly why they are happy they bought a Grilla.

 

[SlowmotionQue]

Actually, if you read into it, you will find your answer to the question. Rather than continue the battle with the PID crowd and the ever raging debate over PID or non, they simply developed a controller that does both....

Understood.

But my question is “why, if what they were touting earlier, a non PID controller grill, was in fact, offering more smoke flavor and hence better tasting food?

If temperature swings , be they “wild” or “tame”, offer the best smoke flavor, well then why deviate from that and start offering grills that would produce less smoke?

I could be wrong, and readily admit that I could be.

But it sounds like marketing to me.

 

[txgunlover]

Understood.

But my question is “why, if what they were touting earlier, a non PID controller grill, was in fact was offering more smoke flavor and hence better tasting food?

Absolutely not... My RecTec's both put out tons of smoke and have perfect temperature control. I can't imagine ever going non-pid.

 

[SlowmotionQue]

Absolutely not... My RecTec's both put out tons of smoke and have perfect temperature control. I can't imagine ever going non-pid.

Well gun lover, that’s the curious part for me.

Before, when Grilla Grills wasn’t offering a PID controller grill, they touted the position that a non PID controller grill offered more smoke and more smoke flavor.

A year later, they start offering a grill with a PID controller.

I’m wondering why if when it came to smoke, PID controlled grills were at a handicap.

 

[txgunlover]

Well gun lover, that’s the curious part for me.

Before, when Grilla Grills wasn’t offering a PID controller grill, they touted the position that a non PID controller grill offered more smoke and more smoke flavor.

A year later, they start offering a grill with a PID controller.

I’m wondering why if when it came to smoke, PID controlled grills were at a handicap.

Exactly... PID is definitely better in my experience, but to each their own.

 

[Pelagic]

I used traditional controller setting for 3 hours of 180 degree smoke - wrapped the racks, switched to PID mode and "cooked" the ribs at 225 degrees for 1.5 hours. Sauced and hot cooked at 375 for 45 mins...

I like having options.

 

[metsfan2152]

I used traditional controller setting for 3 hours of 180 degree smoke - wrapped the racks, switched to PID mode and "cooked" the ribs at 225 degrees for 1.5 hours. Sauced and hot cooked at 375 for 45 mins...

I like having options.

Right but I still don't understand why you wouldn't want a PID? Are you saying you get more smoke i'm confused here

 

[SlowmotionQue]

I used traditional controller setting for 3 hours of 180 degree smoke - wrapped the racks, switched to PID mode and "cooked" the ribs at 225 degrees for 1.5 hours. Sauced and hot cooked at 375 for 45 mins...

I like having options.

Nice. And glad you're enjoying your options.

But I could set my Rec Tec to Extreme Smoke at 180* and then up my temps to 225 for 1.5hrs and stay in "PID mode" the whole time.

Right but I still don't understand why you wouldn't want a PID? Are you saying you get more smoke i'm confused here

Kinda my question too?

 

[ameskimo1]

So PID or non is the ever going debate and may as well be conservative vs liberal. It isn't going to be solved anytime soon. Grilla just got smart and offered both on the same unit. Is it them crying uncle and saying PID is better now? I don't think so, I think it's them saying you can now use their grill in whichever mode you like. Just like a poster above wouldn't have a non PID, I have no use for one with it. But now we can both cook on the same brand of grill. I think it's a brilliant move that sets up a great marketing opportunity. There are a lot of awesome grills out there that one could not go wrong with, but after using the Silverbac it is by far my favorite way to cook

 

[metsfan2152]

So PID or non is the ever going debate and may as well be conservative vs liberal. It isn't going to be solved anytime soon. Grilla just got smart and offered both on the same unit. Is it them crying uncle and saying PID is better now? I don't think so, I think it's them saying you can now use their grill in whichever mode you like. Just like a poster above wouldn't have a non PID, I have no use for one with it. But now we can both cook on the same brand of grill. I think it's a brilliant move that sets up a great marketing opportunity. There are a lot of awesome grills out there that one could not go wrong with, but after using the Silverbac it is by far my favorite way to cook

I am not trying to cause an argument. I am just trying to understand 1 benefit from using a non-PID. For me it just does not make sense to even promote something that does not have benefits over the other one.

 

[ameskimo1]

I am not trying to cause an argument. I am just trying to understand 1 benefit from using a non-PID. For me it just does not make sense to even promote something that does not have benefits over the other one.

Why not? Companies do that all the time. Why would Ford promote a Mustang and an F150? In reality they are both just modes of transportation, right? Or why promote a base model XL over a Platinum model? They are both just trucks in reality, right? Or, it could be that they are saying that they realize everyone has a different preference and are attempting to offer a product to everyone. Instead of saying an F150 is better than a Mustang they can now say Ford is better than the competition. Why fight a battle with yourself when you can instead put the energy into a battle with the competition?

Now I say this with utmost respect and don't mean to come off as a smarta**, If you really want to know, call them up and ask them directly or send an email or facebook message. If it is an answer you want, they will give it to you - but you have to be open to the answer instead of asking the same question over and over.

 

[metsfan2152]

Why not? Companies do that all the time. Why would Ford promote a Mustang and an F150? In reality they are both just modes of transportation, right? Or why promote a base model XL over a Platinum model? They are both just trucks in reality, right? Or, it could be that they are saying that they realize everyone has a different preference and are attempting to offer a product to everyone. Instead of saying an F150 is better than a Mustang they can now say Ford is better than the competition. Why fight a battle with yourself when you can instead put the energy into a battle with the competition?

Now I say this with utmost respect and don't mean to come off as a smarta**, If you really want to know, call them up and ask them directly or send an email or facebook message. If it is an answer you want, they will give it to you - but you have to be open to the answer instead of asking the same question over and over.

I mean that analogy is way off lol. Ones a truck ones a car there are huge differences there. I can name over 10 differences of why you would use each one. I can't see any benefit of using a Non PID vs a PID.

 

[sweetride95]

I'm going PID as we speak on my Traeger.
I don't have a problem finding enough smoke to satisfy my pallet, so I really could care less with the non-PID argument.
My brain likes to see accuracy, so in that alone it's worth the change. I don't expect to make any better food.
I am a 25 yr machinist, who runs the EDM dept, and also am head of our ISO QC/Calibrations. So every 25+/- degree swing was a little chip off the back of my OCD brain.

 

[SlowmotionQue]

I'm going PID as we speak on my Traeger.
I don't have a problem finding enough smoke to satisfy my pallet, so I really could care less with the non-PID argument.
My brain likes to see accuracy, so in that alone it's worth the change. I don't expect to make any better food.
I am a 25 yr machinist, who runs the EDM dept, and also am head of our ISO QC/Calibrations. So every 25+/- degree swing was a little chip off the back of my OCD brain.

I follow you.

But on top of being OCD myself, I'm a skeptic.

I see the lack of a PID controller, and then trying to argue that this is an "advantage", or a "desirable feature", with no objective proof that I can find anywhere, is akin to trying to promote a "bug" as a "feature". A shortcoming as a virtue.

If I'm a home builder, and don't offer programmable thermostats in homes I build, and I promote this not as a "disadvantage", but as a "feature", and show no proof of what I'm offering as being an "advantage", well many are going to be skeptical of my position.

And then a year later, I start offering homes with "both" type thermostats in them, well then what are my prior customers to think who I sold homes to with the old thermostat in them, and vehemently told them that they were getting the best thing?

If I'm a new customer, I'm wondering why the switch if the old way was the best way, and the salesman actually believed that as strongly as he indicated back when the old was was being touted.

If I'm an old customer, I'm wondering what gives.

Demand is ultimately what makes many companies change their tune. That and keeping up with the competition. Stubbornly not offering the purchasing public what it wants, what it's been reading about, and then trying to convince the purchasing public of an "advantage" going the old route vs the new, and offering that up with no objective proof of the claimed advantage, is a tough.

People like set and forget, no muss, no fuss products, and that dates all the way back to the alarm clock. If not further.

Trying to convince them that the rooster is actually a better idea, is going to be a tough argument. Ultimately if you're a company, you'll need to offer an alarm clock if you want to compete in the waking people up on time market. And it says here, that you will eventually phase the rooster out of duty.

When I look at this, just speaking for myself here, I see a case of offering the buying public what it wanted. And likely recognizing less than optimal results in the effort to convince potential purchasers that PID controllers were not as good as non PID controllers when it comes to the end result of cooked food.

That route/argument/position, had no future, or not a very bright one anyway, and I tend to believe that this was recognized. Hence the switch.

 

[SlowmotionQue]

I mean that analogy is way off lol. Ones a truck ones a car there are huge differences there. I can name over 10 differences of why you would use each one. I can't see any benefit of using a Non PID vs a PID.

If there were a consistently measurable and probable benefit, some company would have demonstrated it already.

Without that, it’s just a company claim.

Well, what’s likely to happen, is that many of those who have a controller which will do “both” modes, PID or non PID, they are going to find the mode they likes and stick to it.

It’s like tilt and telescopic steering wheels and electric mirrors.

You set it one time, and never again move it. But you paid for it.

Many, if not most, will set it one time. Likely in PID, finding no discernible taste difference between it and non PID. And will leave it there.

In two years time or less, it would not surprise me if the bi mode controller is gone and the only offering by that company is PID.

The following are my opinions on this matter after seeing marketing hype in a lot of products. This is how it appears to me.

I think it was hogwash that non PID controlled grills produced "more" smoke, and by extension or "implication" better tasting food as a result of wider temperature swings, to begin with.

Where is the objective proof?

Whether or not it is hogwash, prospective customers in the potential purchasing pool, may not have been uniformly convinced of it.

This scenario would seem to prompt changes in the marketing strategy in order to compete in the crowded pellet grill market. Many companies in it already offering PID controlled products.

Hence after touting one setup, I see jumping ship to another.

It would seem that if touting the old way had been optimally effective when it came to customer acquisition, then there would have been no switch. Or no motivation for one anyway.

Thus to me, customer acquisition as opposed to "taste" appears to have been the motivating factor.

 

[retfr8flyr]

I think Grilla felt they were loosing too many customers with their lak of a PID controller, hence the new dual version. It's just marketing sense, most potential buyers are convinced that a PID controller is better, so they almost had to start offering one.

 

[metsfan2152]

Yea of course. But saying that a non pid controller is better is just nonsense.

 

[SlowmotionQue]

I think Grilla felt they were loosing too many customers with their lak of a PID controller, hence the new dual version. It's just marketing sense, most potential buyers are convinced that a PID controller is better, so they almost had to start offering one.

My opinion is consistent with yours on this.

I don’t think that it had as much to do with “taste” as was touted before, as it had to do with “market share” and the prospect or potential of losing whatever portion of that.

Yea of course. But saying that a non pid controller is better is just nonsense.

But makes marketing sense.

If all that you have to offer is the old, well then you might be motivated to tout it as the best.

And so you get into a question of whether one way is being hyped because it’s actually the best?

Or is it being hyped because that’s all that I offer at the current time?

Or are you going to hype what you have in inventory?

Or are you going to give props to what your competitors have in inventory but you don’t?

Now a year later, when you finally get what your competitors have and which is selling like hot cakes, what are you going to do?

You might still offer what you were selling before. But you’ll start selling hot cakes too.

And likely eventually phasing the old offering out altogether.

 

[metsfan2152]

My opinion is consistent with yours on this.

I don’t think that it had as much to do with “taste” as was touted before, as it had to do with “market share” and the prospect or potential of losing whatever portion of that.



But makes marketing sense.

If all that you have to offer is the old, well then you might be motivated to tout it as the best.

And so you get into a question of whether one way is being hyped because it’s actually the best?

Or is it being hyped because that’s all that I offer at the current time?

Or you going to hype what you have in inventory?

Or are you going to give props to what your competitors have in inventory but you don’t?

Now a year later, when you finally get what your competitors have and which is selling like hot cakes, what are you going to do?

You might still offer what you were selling before. But you’ll start selling hot cakes too.

And likely eventually phasing the old offering out altogether.

I feel like though you should have a lower cost with out the PID controller that should be your selling point. Anyway just voicing my opinion.