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Cody_Mack

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RiverSide brand frozen. And of course they are enhanced by injection with that 9.5% blah blah blah solution! Does that hinder curing/brining efforts, or should I use a fresh one for that?

Rick
 

Cody_Mack

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I'm sure this is talked about somewhere. I did a brief search on brining but didn't see anything specific about birds pre-injected with certain solutions.

I guess this should be moved to the Poultry sub-forum...
 

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I moved it for ya. We don't have riversides here anymore. All over when I was growing up. Yes the prebrined ones won't take your brine very well
 

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Thanks. I'll probably just inject this one with some Tony's and "fry" it in my faux infrared fryer. Wifey will be pleased.
 

tallbm

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RiverSide brand frozen. And of course they are enhanced by injection with that 9.5% blah blah blah solution! Does that hinder curing/brining efforts, or should I use a fresh one for that?

Rick
If you do an equilibrium brine+cure and leave it in a few days it should be no issue. I also use a meat syringe with my cure/brine solution and inject my birds as well so they cure fully and fast. It's how I do all of my birds whether they have solution or not. Some people report texture issues brining too long but I use cure #1 so that definitely changes texture in a positive way to me versus a non-cure brine.

If you shoot for 1.75% salt in the equilibrium brine you should be ok.
If you are thinking "what's an equilibrium brine?" just ask and we can help ya out.

Nothing wrong with injecting either. I wouldn't brine a turkey you plan to deep fry. Water and oil don't mix but I brine all mine for smoking.

Why does an equilibrium brine work on enhanced birds? Because the salt evens out between the water and the bird/meat. So if you have the proper ratio you can never get too salty. If your bird is saltier than your brine then salt will leave the bird. If it is less salty then salt will enter the bird. Salt goes wherever it can until it evens out between the water and the bird. That is the magic of an equilibrium brine and why you cannot over salt your meat... that is if you use a proper % of salt :)
 

Cody_Mack

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If you do an equilibrium brine+cure and leave it in a few days it should be no issue. I also use a meat syringe with my cure/brine solution and inject my birds as well so they cure fully and fast. It's how I do all of my birds whether they have solution or not. Some people report texture issues brining too long but I use cure #1 so that definitely changes texture in a positive way to me versus a non-cure brine.
Ok I get it. The injection speeds up the penetration. Two to three days is ok?

If you shoot for 1.75% salt in the equilibrium brine you should be ok.
If you are thinking "what's an equilibrium brine?" just ask and we can help ya out.
Did some reading on another site, and found a calculator. This looks right? (I just guessed at the water amount)
1637336109272.png


Nothing wrong with injecting either. I wouldn't brine a turkey you plan to deep fry. Water and oil don't mix but I brine all mine for smoking.
Oh yeah, I get that!

Thank you so much for this response. Now if you can just share your brine+cure recipe...:emoji_sunglasses:

Rick
 

tallbm

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Ok I get it. The injection speeds up the penetration. Two to three days is ok?


Did some reading on another site, and found a calculator. This looks right? (I just guessed at the water amount)
View attachment 516753


Oh yeah, I get that!

Thank you so much for this response. Now if you can just share your brine+cure recipe...:emoji_sunglasses:

Rick
Yep, injection speeds up brining (and curing when cure #1 used).
It will speed it up by a few days for sure. The more you inject the faster it will speed it up. I equilibrium brined/cured two 12lb+ pork shoulders to make "hams" .

Yep that is a pretty good calculator, I've used it in the past. I now use the following which is less attractive but way more functional and it has a calculator and conversion tools built into the same page. Also it allows you to get your Cure#1 numbers if you are curing.
One thing it doesn't do is figure out your water weight so you have to do that separately.
You then add your water eight and meat weight together and punch in that number in grams and you are golden. At that point you can adjust to 1.75% salt and they will even tell you how much cure you need for that equilibrium brine/cure. You don't have to use cure at all if just brining.
Finally if you don't use any water then you only enter the meat weight in grams and boom you have dry brine numbers.
Super helpful!!!
Digging Dog Farms calculator
http://www.diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html

Now for my brine and cure recipes.... get ready they may blow your mind with their simplicity. Mostly just water and salt, or water, salt, sugar, and cure. Pretty simple but amazing!
  • Equilibrium Brine Only(no cure #1)
    • Water + Meat
    • Salt 1.75% - 1.8% (I like chicken and fish less salty)
    • that's it!!! (simple as can be)
    • I pull from the brine and rinse off quickly then season with Pepper, Garlic, and Onion (season after makes things simple and accurate with flavors, no guessing like you must do if adding seasoning to brine)
    • I mix up/dissolve sugar and salt in water using a blender and pour into tub and then add the rest of the water on top along with the meat.
    • I draw the solution from the tub into a meat syringe and inject meat all over to ensure full penetration and for it to cure/brine much faster
  • Equilibrium Cure (is brine + cure; uses cure #1)
    • Water + Meat
    • Cure#1 for the amount of Water + Meat weight needed (use digging dog calc for this; Proper amount of cure#1 for this 1.13gm cure#1 per pound/16oz/454gm )
    • Salt 1.75% - 1.8% (I like chicken and fish less salty)
    • Sugar 1%
    • If adding any seasoning I eyeball it
      • Pepper, Garlic, Onion for poultry - yeah I'll add some here as cured food doesn't often need much if any additional seasoning so this gets it done by eyeballing and not going crazy
      • Ham - .75 of a large Star Anise and .5 of a clove per 10-12pounds of pork for ham
      • Beef (Pastrami/Corned Beef) - nothing more, I season after with pastrami seasoning
    • So basically just the water, salt, sugar, and cure #1. Depending on the thing cured it may have some seasoning before or after but as long as you do water, salt, sugar, and cure#1 you don't really need more unless the dish calls for it (example: Pastrami)
    • I mix up/dissolve cure, sugar, and salt in water using a blender and pour into tub and then add the rest of the water on top along with the meat. Do not heat cure#1 it kills it!!!
    • I draw the solution from the tub into a meat syringe and inject meat all over to ensure full penetration and for it to cure/brine much faster
  • Dry Cure(no water; still uses cure#1)
    • Meat
    • Cure#1 for weight of Meat
    • Salt 1.8%
    • Sugar 1%
    • Other seasoning or ingredients depends on dish
      • Salmon Lox - I add granulated orange and lemon citrus or orange and lemon zest
      • Bacon - you can go any direction here. Black pepper, Jalapeno powder, etc. etc. You can also just add seasoning after the fact (Black Pepper)
    • Dry cure takes longer. Salt and cure#1 travel 1/4 per day so with something flat you get 1/2 penetration a day total since it penetrates top and bottom at the same time
One pro tip: If you ever use a store bought dry seasoning/cure, I've found using at a 3% ratio for bacon and such has worked (2% salt, 1% sugar which spices mixed in to that bit of a percentage). This has been for 2-3 different LEM's seasoning/cures for bacon and such but when in doubt try and do your fry test to see. Always measure the cure properly per pound of meat or stuff (meat + water weight in equilibrium cures).

I hope all this info helps :)
 

Cody_Mack

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Wow, thank you so much tallbm tallbm for the methods and description. Hopefully you have a lot of that already typed out in a document and you just copy and paste as required by the question. Surely you've replied to these questions several times! If not, then I REALLY appreciate the effort...Ha!

Now, I have read in multiple places indicating that weight is not a factor with a brine/wet cure, as long your curing ingredients and water ratio was correct, and you had enough water to completely cover the product. The method you are telling me makes way more sense, because having enough water to cover can depend on a few variables; size and shape of product, shape of container, etc. I did just use the per-gallon method on a pork loin for 10 days and the end result was very good!
 

tallbm

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Wow, thank you so much tallbm tallbm for the methods and description. Hopefully you have a lot of that already typed out in a document and you just copy and paste as required by the question. Surely you've replied to these questions several times! If not, then I REALLY appreciate the effort...Ha!

Now, I have read in multiple places indicating that weight is not a factor with a brine/wet cure, as long your curing ingredients and water ratio was correct, and you had enough water to completely cover the product. The method you are telling me makes way more sense, because having enough water to cover can depend on a few variables; size and shape of product, shape of container, etc. I did just use the per-gallon method on a pork loin for 10 days and the end result was very good!
Hahah I'm glad all this info is helping you! I use this forum on my computer so typing all that up while on a meeting that is wasting my life is never an issue for me :)

Yeah all that online stuff isn't very accurate. It kind of gets the job done in a heavy handed, not precise, and not easily explainable way but can lead you astray easily.

Going by the weight of the water and the meat to then calculate out the salt, sugar, and cure#1 (if using cure) will ensure you never get to salty and you don't have to worry about time other than making sure you let it go long enough. Injecting the brine/cure as well as soaking speeds it all up a lot.

That calculator you found is fine. They just don't tell you that under the covers they figure out the weight of your water for you and include that in the calculations to get their final salt numbers. What I've mention explains how they got their numbers so now you are armed with all the knowledge and there are no more mysteries :)

The hardest part of an equilibrium brine is figuring out the water. With turkeys you just keep the cryovac plastic on and add them to the pot/brining tub and pour liters of water in until it well covers the turky and then you write down how many you poured in. 4 liters makes a gallon and and each liter of water weighs 2 pounds (gallon weighs 8lbs and a liter is 0.25 of a gallon).
I did the same with my cryovaced pork sholders I turned into "hams".

For other non cryovaced meats it gets a little tougher. In those cases I just start pouring water and try to figure out the halfway mark. Then I can calculate the total amount + a little more water for safety and make it work. I dissolve my brine/cure ingredients in the water in the blender for that last half+ of water. It usually works out :)

Next most difficult problem... having a tub or bucket that can fit all of this for brining and curing AND a fridge with space that can hold it haha.


You are in the right place here to get the info.
 

Cody_Mack

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Good stuff tallbm tallbm . Do I still have time to do one for T-Day? Inject plus brine will get me there in 3-4 days?

Rick
 

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Good stuff tallbm tallbm . Do I still have time to do one for T-Day? Inject plus brine will get me there in 3-4 days?

Rick
Yea you have time as long as it isn't frozen all to hell lol.
Injecting the brine works wonders fast.

Give it a shot. It beats not being brined and just having seasoning only on the outside. Just remember not to add any salt to the bird after the brine if you are going to season the bird :)
 

Cody_Mack

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Well I ended up just cutting the bird into pieces. The two breasts I injected with Tony's Butter Creole and put in the infrared "fryer" for about 90 minutes. Made a loaf of sandwich bread and we had an awesome turkey sandwich and leftover sides for Friday night dinner. I also vacummed sealed one whole breast and into the freezer.

For the leg/thighs and the wings, I put in a cure-brine this morning. Also injected with the solution, so plan to pull them out Tuesday or Wednesday and smoke them. That is, if my pellet pooper is up to the task!

Thanks again for all your help tallbm tallbm !

Rick
 

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Well I ended up just cutting the bird into pieces. The two breasts I injected with Tony's Butter Creole and put in the infrared "fryer" for about 90 minutes. Made a loaf of sandwich bread and we had an awesome turkey sandwich and leftover sides for Friday night dinner. I also vacummed sealed one whole breast and into the freezer.

For the leg/thighs and the wings, I put in a cure-brine this morning. Also injected with the solution, so plan to pull them out Tuesday or Wednesday and smoke them. That is, if my pellet pooper is up to the task!

Thanks again for all your help tallbm tallbm !

Rick
Anytime.
Sounds like you have it covered! Wow wait until you bite into that cured and smoked dark meat!!!!

I can't wait to hear how it turns out :)
 

Cody_Mack

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Well Life stuff keeps rearing its ugly head, so they are still in the brine. Another couple of questions, too:

Skin on or off when going on the smoker or on the dry rack? EDIT: Never mind, you're going for smoked turkey legs...of course you leave the skin on...Ha!

Any other seasonings applied to exterior? Remember these are individual pieces?

For sure tomorrow!

Rick
 
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tallbm

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Well Life stuff keeps rearing its ugly head, so they are still in the brine. Another couple of questions, too:

Skin on or off when going on the smoker or on the dry rack? EDIT: Never mind, you're going for smoked turkey legs...of course you leave the skin on...Ha!

Any other seasonings applied to exterior? Remember these are individual pieces?

For sure tomorrow!

Rick
You can add additional seasonings just don't add salt. It has all the salt it needs.
I added Pepper, Onion, Garlic, and Paprika on my broke down Turkey pieces I smoked and it was great. I've also added nothing and it's been great. Up to you just don't add salt.

Also if you can smoke at 325F or higher you can ensure the skin is edible. If you can't get that hot you might have rubber skin. Rubber skin goes away if its heated up skin exposed to very hot temps or on a hot grill :)


BTW, I just put my 19 pounder in to cure/brine and injected the solution into it pretty well. It should be good and cured tomorrow or saturday when I get to it. If I get to it on Sunday it will still be fine. Cure seems to always ensure that lovely hammy texture so I have never run into texture issues with these cured/brined turkeys I do :)
 

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Well I didn't achieve that nice color like most of y'all routinely post up, but can't complain with the taste! Wife liked it, too...Score!

My CC pellet (PITA) is having issues cooking above 275, so I just mostly went for a hot smoke at 225 - 250. Probably break out the Char-Broil offset for the next ones.
 

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tallbm

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Well I didn't achieve that nice color like most of y'all routinely post up, but can't complain with the taste! Wife liked it, too...Score!

My CC pellet (PITA) is having issues cooking above 275, so I just mostly went for a hot smoke at 225 - 250. Probably break out the Char-Broil offset for the next ones.
That looks very good to me!!
If you want the great mahogany, make 1/3 of the pellets you burn be Cherry wood and you will get the color :)

Great work and continue working the temps to get easily edible skin!
 

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