Fat Out Discussion.

[SmokinEdge]

The issue of fat out in sausage is a big-ish topic always on the forum. I encourage all sausage makers both new and veteran to chime in here and hash out this topic for everyone to see and read for informational purposes.


In my experience, Fat out is generally caused by poor grinding in process. The fat is either to warm (above 32F) or you have a dull knife plate combination. This causes the fat to smear, creating lard essentially. This lard stops the proteins in the meat when mixing for protein extraction to strand and wrap around the fat particles, this is what is called “bind” in sausage making, and must have a clean pellet style grind of both meat and fat. This requires meat that is par frozen and sharp knives and plates. If this does not occur then the mix cannot effectively bind together and will leave a crumbled texture no matter how you cook the sausage.

Take for example a well made sausage smoked or not. Cook it on a grill hot with some chicken, say above 300F, the sausage if left on to long may actually split the casing, this is caused from steam inside and that requires 212F at sea level. Pretty hot sausage, but if caught early on the split sausage is still juicy and not crumbly. This is because the meat mix had proper bind to begin with. Anyone who grills sausage of any type likes them to “plump up” well that is way to hot internal (way more than 150-160F) and should “fat out” the sausage, however it does not.

Binders such as NFDM, or starches will help bind water and can help with texture in a borderline grind process, but they are not strictly needed at all.

Pay special attention to meat temps when grinding soft fat like pork belly as these will or can smear much easier. Keep it cold through the grinding and mixing process and most likely you will see the fat out disappear.

I encourage all comments here.

 

[DougE]

I grind cold to prevent fat smearing ... probably between 30 and 32°F. I also mix at similar temps to keep the fat particles in the grind from smearing.

Another thing that can cause fat out is letting temps get too hot while smoking, causing the fat to render.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Another thing that can cause fat out is letting temps get too hot while smoking, causing the fat to render.

So what causes sausage, especially larger diameter, to stall? We know that with brisket or pork butt that it’s evaporative cooling so we wrap in some cases to stop that effect, but sausage is already wrapped in a casing. So why the stall?

Also, many people successfully smoke sausage in a pellet or stick burn pit at temperatures well above 170F from the beginning to end. Why no fat out there?

 

[DougE]

So what causes sausage, especially larger diameter, to stall? We know that with brisket or pork butt that it’s evaporative cooling so we wrap in some cases to stop that effect, but sausage is already wrapped in a casing. So why the stall?

Also, many people successfully smoke sausage in a pellet or stick burn pit at temperatures well above 170F from the beginning to end. Why no fat out there?

I don't know, but I have experienced fat out with my pellet rig on a hot summer day that let the temp get too high in the cook chamber. All the other rules for grinding and mixing were followed. Everything was kept cold.

 

[Timber II]

If your grinder has a lot of fat smear and buildup on the inside when cleaning it ya probably ground it all too warm.
Good subject to discuss!

 

[Gonna Smoke]

I'm learning and trying to absorb all the info I can, so not much to contribute. But, I'm in to see what folks have to say...

 

[mike243]

Most every recipe I have read which has been a couple years ago stated to bring temps up slowly 10 degree per hour till desired temp is reached, never any problems following that rule. I wouldn't bet I kept things as cold as I should have cause there was always a beer or 12 involved if it was a afternoon stuff / smoke time

 

[DougE]

I wouldn't bet I kept things as cold as I should have cause there was always a beer or 12 involved if it was a afternoon stuff / smoke time

I'm pretty much anal when it comes to my grinding/mixing temps. If I'm going to get any fat out, it won't be from that part of the process.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Most every recipe I have read which has been a couple years ago stated to bring temps up slowly 10 degree per hour till desired temp is reached, never any problems following that rule. I wouldn't bet I kept things as cold as I should have cause there was always a beer or 12 involved if it was a afternoon stuff / smoke time

So how many big name Bbq restaurants do you think do the ramp up in temps on their in-house made sausage? I would bet most just throw them on the same grate the brisket is on, say 225F no complaints from customers, no fat out issue just delicious sausage. Maybe I’m wrong?

 

[DougE]

So how many big name Bbq restaurants do you think do the ramp up in temps on their in-house made sausage? I would bet most just throw them on the same grate the brisket is on, say 225F no complaints from customers, no fat out issue just delicious sausage. Maybe I’m wrong?

I just run the lowest temp the camp chef will go (160°) til I get the color I want, then SV poach for the finish. You know this already, though.

 

[Fueling Around]

I haven't used any supplemental binding agent to date.
Going to make up some uh American summer sausage this weekend using TSM fermento instead of using ECA. Fermento is a blend of buttermilk powder and potato starch. An acid and a neutral vegetable binder. Planning to do a long pasteurization then finish in a sous vide.

Oh by the way, if you are using an acid product (low ph) such as fermento, encapsulated citric acid (ECA) or any of the lactic acid cultures, DO NO USE a phosphate based binder. Phosphates are high ph and will neutralize the whole process.

NFDM is a high protein (plus high sugar) to bind the fat.

I make breakfast sausage patties and must over mix the bind. I would like the fat to happen a bit quicker.

I'm cautious on using the pooper to smoke (mostly cook) sausage. The convention oven greatly overheats the exterior before the interior is up to temperature. Exterior can fat out and the casing gets tough.

 

[Hijack73]

I'm still relatively new to this, but the only bad batch I've had is an early batch where I left the sausage in the poaching water too long. It rendered out a LOT of fat - leaving pockets where fat once was and the texture was pure-d no bueno.

My Pit Boss refuses to run under 220 - and that's with an aftermarket quality PID. I can MAYBE get away with 210 - but at 220 I don't get flame outs and re-fires. I imagine a re-fire when smoking sausage would be a disaster. I'll never buy another Pit Boss, that's for sure.

I've settled on a 3 step process for mine - cutting out the poach. Cold smoke for the duration of a tube, run it at 220 until it looks nice and dark, pop it in the oven at 170 until it temps. I pull the links at about 150. If I want to eat a link right then and there, I pop it in the air fryer at very high temps for a couple of minutes. It often splits, but I've yet to be disappointed with fat out pockets, all of the cheese running out (some does, but yeah - it splits) and the texture never suffers.

I do it with bacon too.

I use a binder. My poor old hands can only take so much hand mixing. But I use less than many people have posted, and I fully admit that my farce is nowhere near as tacky as some of the pics you more experienced folks have posted. NFDM, the cheapest I can find. Usually about 20-25g/2kg. I mixed a whole hell of a lot more in the beginning because I was terrified of subpar texture, but I haven't hit bottom on how lazy I can be when it comes to getting a "proper bind"

Santa says I need a stand mixer. I told Santa that I really didn't want to sacrifice counter space, but Santa probably won't be denied. I'll try a few batches sans binder if Santa makes good on her threat....


I posted a thread the other day about some ground sirloin that came out of the vac bag funny. It was like pea gravel. The seals were good, but it wouldn't hold a patty shape to save its life. Maybe once in a while we get a cut from a critter that has some weird animalitis. Who knows. I've been grinding and using my own frozen beef since Bill Clinton was president, and that was a first.

EDIT: my first few runs were all on the pit. no poach, no oven finish. They were fine.

this was my very first successful sausage. It was the second batch I ever made. Fresh off of the smoker, cooked to about 155 - maybe I'm just lucky?

 

[mike243]

Hot cooking is not the same as smoking it to be frozen and used at a latter date.

 

[JLinza]

I'm not in the sausage game yet, so I can't say what's right or wrong. But I will say that if and when I'm in a position to start my sausage journey, guys like DougE , BGKYSmoker and most certainly Eric SmokinEdge . Will be on my call list to answer all the dumb questions I have lol. I know there are many more. But that's where I'm starting..

 

[indaswamp]

Believe it or not....there is such a thing as having the fat TOO cold for a grinder. When the fat is too cold, it gets shaved when pressed through the grinder plate holes and does not come out in long strands like spaghetti. This will affect the texture and CAN lead to fat out when mixing if mixed improperly. The use of a digital thermometer to check the meat chunks before grinding is advised. Make sure the entire batch is fairly uniform and check for ultra cold spots. For large batches 10# +, it is highly recommended to mix the chunks every 15-20 minutes or so to prevent ultra cold spots around the edges and on the bottom of the tote. I shoot for 30-32*F for the fat. Meat will grind good up to 34*F.....

 

[Winterrider]

Santa says I need a stand mixer. I told Santa that I really didn't want to sacrifice counter space, but Santa probably won't be denied. I'll try a few batches sans binder if Santa makes good on her th

The stand mixers are nice but want to be honest with you, they are a complete PITA to clean. Maybe not so bad if you have a large slop sink. I gave mine to my brother. He uses "occasionally"

 

[Dustin Dorsey]

A lot of Texas BBQ joints are doing some kind of "cold smoke" which is not at all a cold smoke but basically cooking it in a really smoky fire at 150 to maybe 180. They then re-cook it at normal bbq temps to serve. I actually like them just cooked at 225 to 275 fine. My standard method is making a batch and freezing them and then cook them as needed. They last pretty much indefinitely vacuum packed in the freezer. As long as I don't overcook them they are incredible.

A month or two ago I ground some meat for burgers and I figured since I wasn't making sausage with it I wouldn't worry about chilling as much. I found a layer of fat in the grooves of the grinder. The meat was fairly cold, but not as cold as I usually get it. The burgers were fine as I wasn't worried about a tight bind, but they probably would have been bad sausages.

I think rendered fat is delicious. That yellow layer of rendered fat on a brisket slice is hard to beat. So if some of the fat renders in a sausage it's not a big deal to me. On the other hand if you were making something like a salami, then you want to be a lot more careful.

 

[zwiller]

Great topic to bring up. I think there a couple ways it happens and depends on all sorts of things but in my bologna/cervelat/SS runs in the MES I am pretty sure it's humidity related/evaporative cooling. Sausage exterior dries, IT stalls, so you end up running it too long or bumping the temp or both and then whammo, fat out. I am getting REALLY geeky as of late about it and have been studying up. I just got some high tech moisture wicking towels I plan to add the water pan to get the humidity as high as I can. I happened to talk with a pro about it and he told me humidity is important but less of an issue for them as they run so much product at a time compared to us. I run 3lbs in the MES... Tempted to get a RH meter of sorts to see what's going on but think I will fry it from the smoke. I did find confirmation in Marianski's Smokehouse book that more humidity equals more smoke AKA "smoke deposition". Seen a few guys on YT have modded their smoker to add a steam injector and say it's a total game changer. I am secretly hoping adding humidity might improve my smoked cheese.

 

[Hijack73]

The stand mixers are nice but want to be honest with you, they are a complete PITA to clean. Maybe not so bad if you have a large slop sink. I gave mine to my brother. He uses "occasionally"

Yep, I had a nice KA Artisan that I killed grinding meat. When I had the kitchen redone over the summer I went with a banjo style sink - one side very small, one side very large so that cleaning up things like stockpots and spraying off slicer parts would be so much easier.

 

[DougE]

Believe it or not....there is such a thing as having the fat TOO cold for a grinder. When the fat is too cold, it gets shaved when pressed through the grinder plate holes and does not come out in long strands like spaghetti. This will affect the texture and CAN lead to fat out when mixing if mixed improperly. The use of a digital thermometer to check the meat chunks before grinding is advised. Make sure the entire batch is fairly uniform and check for ultra cold spots. For large batches 10# +, it is highly recommended to mix the chunks every 15-20 minutes or so to prevent ultra cold spots around the edges and on the bottom of the tote. I shoot for 30-32*F for the fat. Meat will grind good up to 34*F.....

Sage advice.

This will affect the texture and CAN lead to fat out when mixing if mixed improperly.

I think some may miss that mixing temps matter as much as grinding temps. I always chill my grind back down prior to mixing to keep the fat particles defined rather than having them smeared into the meat.