Cure #1 and Chlorine

[SmokinEdge]

The greatest strength of this forum is the willingness to share secrets that in the past were guarded furiously. This site can vault your game forward by a lifetime. All of this just for being polite and asking. We share.

 

[indaswamp]

^^^^^Yep. But you have to be humble and willing to ask. People here genuinely want to help you.

 

[DougE]

But you have to be humble and willing to ask. People here genuinely want to help you.

Sometimes, as in my case, they come looking for you, because they know that you genuinely want to learn the craft.

 

[JckDanls 07]

As for the water... I'm on well... run through a water softener and then an aerator ... then the drinking /ice machine water goes through a 5 filter reverse osmosis system... I think it's clean ... I know it taste fantastic ...

 

[thirdeye]

I'm sure he learned that back before refrigeration was widely available.

Widely is the key word. The family had a dairy, and with that came an ice house. The brothers worked in the oil fields and were notorious poachers of wild game which was aged in the ice house along with sides of bacon both of which was sold out the back door at a handsome profit.

Yes, I would guess a straight salt cure during the depression was standard, and much later on he did use salt and saltpetre, but he still had a salt box. By then he was retired and there was a beer fridge and bacon was a hobby.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Sometimes, as in my case, they come looking for you, because they know that you genuinely want to learn the craft.

All that matters now is that you have the information you needed and asked for. Now you are more confident and successful in the craft of meat curing. That’s part of what this site provides.

 

[DougE]

All that matters now is that you have the information you needed and asked for. Now you are more confident and successful in the craft of meat curing. That’s part of what this site provides.

There is always more to learn, but yeah, I have a decent handle on it.

 

[zwiller]

Bravo, well said zwiller .

As to erythorbate, I’ve taken to using it in all my hams and sausages. It is a cure accelerator, but most importantly it is an antioxidant and preservative and color fixer. It is also said to help stop fat rancidity. I do not see any negative or downside for it other than I’m not sure you can successfully use it with dry curing as it may burn off the nitrite before it can thoroughly penetrate the meat. Marianski suggests not to use erythorbate in dry cured products for this reason.

Thanks for turning me onto it. Used it on my last summer sausage and believe there was improvement in it as well. Kinda funny, since one of my homebrewing secrets was an antioxidant as well. Also funny just how little you need to use. Wish me luck, Champion Juicer with solid plate near me for $110 on FB Marketplace...

 

[bill ace 350]

If your water is chlorinated, fill a couple of large pots with as much water as you need. set them on a table or counter top, covering the pots with a light towel, for a day or so. chlorine naturally dissipates through evaloration.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Wish me luck, Champion Juicer with solid plate near me for $110 on FB Marketplace...

Keep me posted.

 

[daveomak]

Salt =
What Is the Chemical Formula for Table Salt?
https://www.reference.com › science › chemical-formula-table-salt-9919167264a64d83
The chemical formula for table salt is NaCl. Also called sodium chloride, natrium chloride or halite, table salt is an ionic compound that contains a positively charged ion of sodium and a negatively charged chloride ion connected through an ionic bond.
Sodium hypochlorite = Sometimes used to disinfect water...
Sodium hypochlorite | NaOCl - PubChem
https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › compound › Sodium-hypochlorite
Sodium hypochlorite in 0.5% w/v solution is called Dakin's solution, and is used as an antiseptic to clean infected topical wounds. Sodium hypochlorite is an inorganic sodium salt in which hypochlorite is the counterion. It is used as a bleaching and disinfecting agent and is commonly found in household bleach.

 

[thirdeye]

The chemical formula for table salt is NaCl. Also called sodium chloride, natrium chloride or halite, table salt is an ionic compound that contains a positively charged ion of sodium and a negatively charged chloride ion connected through an ionic bond.

Hmmmm. What did I learn today?.... that the word natrium is associated with salt.

Why is this important to me? Well, Wyoming has a number of aging coal fired power plants owned by Uncle Warren (Warren Buffet) and associates. Some units are scheduled to shut down, others could convert to natural gas.... but one location will host a nuclear reactor, named the Natrium project, that will utilize a sodium-cooled fast reactor with a molten salt-based energy storage system. The company, TerraPower, is Bill Gate$, GE and Hitachi. These things take years for permitting and construction so we'll have to wait and see. More info is HERE. Okay.... back to curing.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Kinda strange how different parts of the country do things differently.
I have been in excavation most all of my adult life since graduating high school. So over 30 years. I have installed 100 miles or more of main line municipal water and sewer line. When we install main water for development we use chlorine tablets, or sometimes liquid chlorine in every 20’ joint of pipe at installed. Once completed we “load” the line from the existing main water main system purging all air from the line, then we build pressure to what ever the city main happens to be then close all valves and isolate our new main line for 24 hours to allow the chlorine to disinfect the new system. Then we flush thousands of gallons out of the system. Then we do a BAC-T test and must have zero bacteria, then we do a chlorine test and must have zero chlorine. We have no chlorine or fluoride in our water system. Yet other have one or both.

 

[PolishDeli]

Chemistry home work

Questions
You make a curing brine using cure#1 and chlorinated tap water.
1 - Does the sodium nitrite in the cure react with the sodium hypochlorite in the water?
2 - Does it matter?

Solutions
1
Balanced chemical reaction
NaNO2 (aq) + NaClO (aq) -> NaCl (aq) + NaNO3 (aq)

Gibbs free energies:
Reactants
NaNO2 (aq) -299.1 kJ/mol
NaClO (aq) -298.7 kJ/mol
Products
NaCl (aq) -393.2 kJ/mol
NaNO3 (aq) -373.2 kJ/mol

Total Gibbs Free Energy of the products is lower than the reactants. Therefore, this reaction will occur spontaneously.

2
The concentration of sodium hypochlorite in tap water is around 4ppm.
Concentration of sodium nitrite is around 250ppm (this is assuming an equilibrium curing brine for 5 pounds of meat in 1 gallon of water, targeting a final cure level of 150ppm).

Convert ppm to mols:
0.05 mols of sodium hypochlorite.
3.6 mols of sodium nitrite.

Therefore, the number of sodium hypochlorite molecules is only 1.5% that of sodium nitrite molecules.

Conclusion
Yes, a reaction will occur.
No, it does not matter.
The reaction forms table salt and sodium nitrate. Both are used for curing anyway. But more importantly, the amount of chlorine in tap water is not high enough to meaningfully impact the cure levels in the brine.

 

[Sven Svensson]

P PolishDeli Thanks so much for that great explanation. I love seeing the science on this. Facts are better than fiction. Much appreciated.