Cooking & Smashing Steel….. ah such a rewarding feeling!!!

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jcam222 jcam222 Here is an example of just 3 layers (san mai), 1084 core with 15n20 outer.
SanMai.jpg


So the hope with the billet above is to have the san mai design with the random pattern bevels, this can be done by making the canister, making flat pieces and then making a new stack to weld up, but I am attempting to do that all in the can together in one operation.....
 
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Thank you for that detailed explanation! It's fascinating, and I appreciate the time you took to write that up for us.
 
Sure thing, in simple terms you are heating steel of different composition to a temperature hot enough to allow them to fuse (weld) together under pressure.

Example:
Here a stack of two different high carbon steels 1084 and 15n20
View attachment 666195

The layers are stacked together and then heated to a welding temperature....View attachment 666196
Note that when welding the surfaces each piece of steel needs to be protected from oxidation because that prevents the steel from welding. The most common way is the use of flux (aka borax), it turns into a corrosive fluid when heated and coats the surface, which prevents oxygen from getting to the surface of the steel and it also "melts" any oxidation that is there....

On alternate to flux is sealing it from the open air, ie welding the pieces together and this keeps the surface from seeing any additional oxygen other than what is in the little space that is between the layers. This oxygen isn't enough to keep if from welding.... IE the billet (stack of steel) above was welded all around like this.

the third way is to hold the stack together and soak it in kerosene and then put it in a oxygen deficient forge, ie this can be risky but many smiths use it very successfully, ie my forge is oxygen deficient, ie you can actually get a slight "propane" smell of un-burned propane being pushed out of the chamber by what does burn.


Now, once the stacked steel is hot enough to weld it is put under pressure to facilitate the welding. The pressure can be a hammer or a press of some kind (see the flat plates on the press below)
View attachment 666197

The billet is worked, ie "drawn out" with rounded plates on the press, anvil horn and hammer, or a rounded hammer face. Once it is all drawn out it is shapped, cut, or ground to shape and then the knife bevels are ground in. The steel is then "etched" in acid and lightly sanded to reveal the individual layers from the billet. Note that the different steel composition causes a different color "etch" from the acid.

View attachment 666198

Note that the darker lines are the 1084 steel and the shinier are the 15n20 steel. The shininess is cause by a higher nickel content in the 15n20 composition the brighter lines are the edges are cause by the acid raising up the edge so when sanded (2000 grit) it polishes the 15n20 edge more.

In the can above rather than using "plate" steel, pieces (ball bears, fish hooks, etc.) are placed in a non-hardenable (mild or low carbon steel) steel can, along with powdered steel to fill in all the gaps. The can keeps it all together, prevents oxygen to allow a weld to happen inside the can. Once the can is drawn out the mild steel is ground off revealing the pattern the parts a pieces created. It should be noted that a medium (usually something with Titanium oxide, ie without, or white paint) can be used to line the can which will prevent the can from welding to the contents inside, this allows the can to be peeled off from the high carbon steel and then you work on the billet from there. Its just another variation of how to keep the materials from oxidizing and separated from the mild steel.

Note that in the can above, there are 3 pieces of plate steel in the middle, ie a 1084 core with 15n20 on either side, this should create a dark cutting edge with a shiny wavy line/band above the edge. Next the bearings which are 52100 steel and the fish hooks which are 1084a steel. The 1084 steel with 4% nickel is basically 15n20 steel in a powered form. However, the composition of them all is different enough that when etched it will create a random pattern of darks and lights, ie creates a unique piece that can never be duplicated again.
Very cool. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Watching this for sure!
 
From watching Forged In Fire I actually know what you’re doing! (Id like to give it a whirl sometime). Good luck, hope it turns out well.
 
That's a gorgeous knife. Don't let tsa get it at the airport. I lose all my fave pocket knives that way
 
Thank you for that detailed explanation! It's fascinating, and I appreciate the time you took to write that up for us.
You are welcome sigmo! Giving the real story vs the “tv” version…..lol!
Very cool. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Watching this for sure!
Thanks h on smoke! And you are welcome glad to share!
From watching Forged In Fire I actually know what you’re doing! (Id like to give it a whirl sometime). Good luck, hope it turns out well.
Thanks RT! It’s always a nail biter till you see what’s under the scale!
That's a gorgeous knife. Don't let tsa get it at the airport. I lose all my fave pocket knives that way
Thanks bill! Oh trust me NO tsa agent is going to even think about it!!! The boy and me hand hammered the San mai one so it’s not going anywhere! The other one went at an raffle to support rural Idaho scholarship fund
What a beautiful craft!
Many thanks doc! It’s also an addicting one!
 
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The last couple days work was to fab up a set of prototype quick change dies holders and to build a “softer” drawing out set of dies.
A1BD245F-8385-4A1D-8C54-13BE0C2090C8.jpeg


Also fabed up some ram stops as well, you can see them in the pic between the frame rails. I made up a set of shims that can adjust in 1/16 inch adjustments to get an exact press depth and therefore billet thickness….
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Used the new dies above to draw out the billet more and to true up the thickness, I’ll post a pic (I forgot to take one) before I start to clean it up.

The quick change dies holders were magic! I’m going to get some 3/4 inch solid stock to machine a set from mono steel…I’m also going to send the details to Coil Iron to share for other press users benefit
 
Happened to go out to the shop tonight so took a better pic of the quick change holders……
7B37DA47-B693-4237-9C8A-23EDC33BAD95.jpeg

I’m looking forward to the mono steel milled versions….just fun milling things up…

Oh here is the billet, it’s a full 17 inches, started with 3.25, ie stretched out over 5 times the length, you can see the ram stops and the aggressive drawing out dies (the 1/2 round ones). These make the patterns really wavy….see how they compare to the ones I just made up….
04C7AC96-93F9-42C9-839D-5797398DCBA5.jpeg


This shows the thickness and the uniformity aided bay the stops…..just money!!
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Happened to go out to the shop tonight so took a better pic of the quick change holders……
View attachment 666466
I’m looking forward to the mono steel milled versions….just fun milling things up…

Oh here is the billet, it’s a full 17 inches, started with 3.25, ie stretched out over 5 times the length, you can see the ram stops and the aggressive drawing out dies (the 1/2 round ones). These make the patterns really wavy….see how they compare to the ones I just made up….
View attachment 666467

This shows the thickness and the uniformity aided bay the stops…..just money!!
View attachment 666468
Looking good! It's never work when you get to play with your toys... and craft something like that!

Ryan
 
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So today was the time to build a canister for this years scholarship raffle……. I have high hopes for this one……

The can, 3.25 inches of 1/8 thick with 3/8 end caps, recessed 1/8th in….

There is a 1084/15n20 San mai core in the middle and then a blend of 52100 1/4 bearings and various sizes of 1084a fishhooks, filled with fine 4% nickel 1084 powered steel…..fingers crossed!!!
View attachment 666022

In they go…..blue flame is cool and low oxygen!!
View attachment 666024

Getting close to the ideal color…
View attachment 666025
It still has a bit to go though…..you can still see darkness and a solid look to it….. 15 mins more….
View attachment 666026

It’s ready….. it looks like it’s melting and translucent….. now that is HOT!!!!!
View attachment 666030

After about 40 mins in the 2300 degree forge,
Setting the can, ie welding it together under the 12 ton Coal Iron!
View attachment 666029

The result…. Many hours and more oh smashy!!!
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Next up will be grinding off the can and seeing what’s inside……. Double fingers and toes crossed l……
Wow, so awesome like I am watching a episode of forged fire. Can’t wait to see the end result.

JC
 
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Today was annealing time…….so fired up the newly built oven……..it’s HOT!
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Man oh man does it look cozy or what……
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Time to roast!
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Let them come up to temp and soak for 15 - 20 min….
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I just love the look of steel when it’s non-magnetic….
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Now hit the power and let it cool slowly. Looking for a rate to have it take 50 or so minutes to drop to 1100 degrees then air cool…..this will make it soft to work with it!

The new oven and Auber PID works like a charm!
 
I like what you are doing. I was also a Forged in Fire watcher so I know at least a little bit of how it works.

For me I am more interested in making 3D printed objects then casting them into soft metals.

I bought a CastMaster 10KG propane crucible and all the safety things to go with it. I have not used it yet since I have more important things to work on but when I get the time I am sure it will be fun.
 
I like what you are doing. I was also a Forged in Fire watcher so I know at least a little bit of how it works.

For me I am more interested in making 3D printed objects then casting them into soft metals.

I bought a CastMaster 10KG propane crucible and all the safety things to go with it. I have not used it yet since I have more important things to work on but when I get the time I am sure it will be fun.
That’s cool, I’ve thought about doing some casting work for pommels and guards. We go through enough Al cans that it would almost be free! Thought about keeping the pull tabs cause it a better alloy
 
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As an fyi, I like to soak my billets over night in vinegar to “dissolve” the forge scale. The vinegar makes easy work of it as the scale destroys ginder belts.
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It will also put a light etch on the surface pattern so till the morrow!
 
That’s cool, I’ve thought about doing some casting work for pommels and guards. We go through enough Al cans that it would almost be free! Thought about keeping the pull tabs cause it a better alloy
I got a heavy duty paper shreder and converted it to shred aluminum cans. It saves a lot of space and will make it easier to melt them. Now I have 6 - 5 gallon buckets full ready to melt sitting in the back of my shed.
 
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This weekends knife build task was to put the finishing touches on the new heat treat oven build……

Ie some high temp BBQ paint……see the homage to the old pellet grill, it gave its nice stainless to the cause!
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The PID control and door switch all mounted and wires protected…..
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I added a fire place door gasket and did a heat test…..ran it up to 1725 deg….. it hit 1550 in 40 min and it was right at an hour for the 1725. Ps don’t have any open arm hair exposed while reaching in front of this….it goes bye bye pretty quick
8DC813C9-AEB2-4018-89BA-2A20E66027E8.jpeg

These numbers make me really happy. The evenheat ovens take an average of 80-90 min to hit 1500 so pleased as punch!!!!
 
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Been watching thread but keeping my 2¢ to myself.
Ran the remelt aluminum and copper alloy (brass/bronze mix) lab at college for a semester. My face was very sunburned. Fun, but decided that molten metal was not my passion to pursue as a hobby.
That’s cool, I’ve thought about doing some casting work for pommels and guards. We go through enough Al cans that it would almost be free!

Thought about keeping the pull tabs cause it a better alloy
Really?
I used to call on an ALCOA rolling mill 40 years ago. The same stock rolled for the cans and lids also went to the tab. The only thing that would make it better is no paint.
The reason charities collect tabs is to count cans. The supporting companies pay by the can.
 
With that Memphis nameplate, better make sure none of your neighbors try to smoke their chicken dinner in that thing at 1500 degrees! :emoji_sunglasses:
 
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