Cold Smoking

[cowgirl]

Princess, Rytek is right. If you use his recipes you need to follow them exactly as written. Some sausage is not meant to be cooked or smoked to a high internal temperature.

another good source for sausage info... http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/index.html

"Originally Posted by losyeny  

 

what is the maximum temp for aging ham after curing and cold smoking?  Wondering if it can be hung in garage during winter months (not freezing)? "

losyeny,

after a ham has been properly cured you have the option to smoke it or not.  The ham does need to equalize before either smoking or aging. A skin-on ham can age from 5 to 12 months.  The temperature best suited for aging is between 70 to 85 degrees..

You need to have good air flow around the ham especially for the first week, this helps dry the ham... as the ham ages it loses weight which in turn concentrates the amount of salt in the meat... thus preventing bacteria to form.

Run a wire into the ham every once in awhile. (down to the bone)... if the wire smells bad, there is a good chance the cure did not reach the center and the meat is spoiling from the inside.

I've hung cured hams during the winter in an outbuilding and have never had one freeze.  When I cold smoke a ham during the winter, it hangs in my smokehouse for days..

Hope this helps!

 

[pineywoods]

If what I am reading is correct, TQ and InstaCure1 are brand names for the same active ingredient: sodium nitrite

http://www.americanspice.com/catalo...0212&_ssess_=fbb56c6db76653dd43b7a36bc6e122ba

http://www.sausagemaker.com/11000instacureand153no11lb.aspx

To be fair, I think TQ is chemically closer to IC2, but that's not my point just yet. :)

Pineywoods, says no, this is not correct. That I must still get the meat to "proper" temp before eating. The cure makes no difference.

Bearcarver, you're saying I absolutely need both the cure and the "proper" temp, correct? That the cure is what allows me to hold the meat at botulism level temps for so long, but that Rytek is wrong? That I still have to get the meat to 150 minimum?

So how do you guys make prosciutto? Or pepperoni? Or lardo? Or any of the other tasty meaty goodies that are NEVER cooked at all?

I'm just boggled right now.

-Princess

 

Ryteck is not wrong but its not the cure that makes them safe to eat its the rest of the process. Those are dry or semi dry sausages and that is the process that makes them safe to eat. The cure is only the start of the process for those sausages. If you read over the link that Cowgirl posted it should make a lot more sense. Many of us aren't set up to maintain the proper temperatures and humidity levels to do these types of sausage but there are some here that are maybe they will chime in with better info. I personally don't know if you should be using Instacure #1 for these I almost think you'd want Instacure #2 but I'm not sure.

 

[Bearcarver]

If Morton would pay me to do the work of writing, and provide me with the FACTS needed to write the book, I'd be thrilled to be a part of that project.  :)

Looks like I am hitting the library for this one... Let's get some facts, BearCarver! :)

Cheers!

-Sarah
 

 

LOL

"Just the facts Ma'am"---Joe Friday--1950s  

 

[bbally]

I am waiting until winter (when my basement gets just a little more consistently 55 degrees) to start working on semi-dry cured sausage.  What I am reading says Cold Smoke for color (aka bloom) and flavor (aka fermentation) then raise it for safety.  But I am still confused:

For example: Rytek Kutas in GSR&MC hold the Sheboygan Summer Sausage at 90 degrees in heavy smoke for 24 hours, then at 130 for four hours, & finally 150 for for four hours (internal temp of 140.)

It is a pork/beef recipe that DOES include InstaCure #1, but never gets above 140. Is it the cure that makes the meat safe to eat? Or the cure plus time above 80 degrees?

Cheers-

Princess

Instacure number 1 makes it safe to hold at ninety degrees for 4 hours.  This would be a time temp violation if the cure #1 was not in the meat.

The slow rise to 140 is to insure all the nitrite has converted.  The length of time at the different steps is for smoke depth and texture.

The cure makes it safe... without it nasties could grow.  It works by converting from Nitrite to Nitrous Oxide.  Which decays to NaCl and O3 (ozone) First the nitrite kills things, then the nitrous kills things, then the O3 kills anything left.  Leaving behind salt.

 

[bbally]

Long curing sausages and methods require Cure Number 2 which also contains sodium nitrate.  This triples the length of time that the conversions are taking place allowing fermented sausage to stay safe while they develop the flavor profile necessary for true fermented taste.

Country ham is cured with just salt..... but the correct salt and proper HACCP plan is required to do it for real and be safe.

 

[chefrob]

good thread.............as i am just starting to read about the curing process. keep this one rolling!

 

[scarbelly]

I am loving watching this thread and the great input - like Rob said - keep it coming

I have both the Rytek and Charcuterie books and this is great info

Here are a couple more sites to add to the sausage links

http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/index.html

http://www.meatprocessingproducts.com/sausage-recipes.html

http://thespicysausage.com/index.html

Gary

 

[Bearcarver]

I am loving watching this thread and the great input - like Rob said - keep it coming

I have both the Rytek and Charcuterie books and this is great info

Here are a couple more sites to add to the sausage links

http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/index.html

http://www.meatprocessingproducts.com/sausage-recipes.html

http://thespicysausage.com/index.html

Gary

Hey Scarbelly,

That second link (meatprocessing........) is the one I got the great buy on my 5# stuffer with the stuffing kit. It was about $40 less from them than from LEM itself. The only thing is, after nearly two weeks of hearing nothing from them, and them not returning emails & phone calls, I had to call LEM. Within two hours after calling LEM, I started getting action & had my order within 5 days after that.

Thought you should know for the future,

Bear

 

[princess]

I am going to try Rytek's Sheboygan come October. In order to ensure I am following him to the letter, I just need the basement to be a little more steady.  Wish me luck, pepperoni come December.

Hey BearCarver...

http://morton.elsstore.com/view/product/?id=21181&cid=178

I may grab one. They ship 'em practically free if you order one or two.

-Princess

 

[Bearcarver]

I am going to try Rytek's Sheboygan come October. In order to ensure I am following him to the letter, I just need the basement to be a little more steady.  Wish me luck, pepperoni come December.

Hey BearCarver...

http://morton.elsstore.com/view/product/?id=21181&cid=178

I may grab one. They ship 'em practically free if you order one or two.

-Princess

Yup,

That's the one I got. It's not very big, and it doesn't have a lot in it, but it's worth the low price, especially since there isn't a whole lot out there as far as good recipes with TQ.

Bear
 

 

[tjohnson]

Great Post!!

Todd

 

[scarbelly]

Hey Scarbelly,

That second link (meatprocessing........) is the one I got the great buy on my 5# stuffer with the stuffing kit. It was about $40 less from them than from LEM itself. The only thing is, after nearly two weeks of hearing nothing from them, and them not returning emails & phone calls, I had to call LEM. Within two hours after calling LEM, I started getting action & had my order within 5 days after that.

Thought you should know for the future,

Bear

I had called them daily for two weeks with no response so I did not order from them but their recipes are interesting so I kept the link just for that - I remember we chatted about these guys when you ordered -

Gary
 

 

[princess]

Do think its because the chemical mix of TenderQuick is patented and proprietary? As apposed to Prague Powder/InstaCure/Tinted Salt?

Hmm... Morton has an HQ in Chicago. Maybe I'll look into it next time I am there.

Cheers!

-Princess
 

Yup,

That's the one I got. It's not very big, and it doesn't have a lot in it, but it's worth the low price, especially since there isn't a whole lot out there as far as good recipes with TQ.

Bear
 

 

[Bearcarver]

Do think its because the chemical mix of TenderQuick is patented and proprietary? As apposed to Prague Powder/InstaCure/Tinted Salt?

Hmm... Morton has an HQ in Chicago. Maybe I'll look into it next time I am there.

Cheers!

-Princess
 

 

Princess,

Any info you can find about TQ, please let me know---maybe by a link?

I always have an eye out for info on recipes using TQ. I have found some though, that I ignored, because sometimes a web page will have a recipe using TQ that is totally wrong. I never use a recipe with curing involved, unless I can confirm it's accuracy elsewhere.

Thanks,

Bear

 

[smoker lar]

Cowgirl,

Hi, my name is Larry O'Connor and I have been enjoying this forum for the past 3 months that I have found it. I have been smoking for the past 3 years and since found out how many others are doing the same.

I really want to learn more about cold smoking because I have tasted some cold smoked sausages at parties that blow me away. I'm trying to get this straight in my head of how to go about it but the more posts I read I get more confused. 

Yours seemed to make more sense to me then others but I'd like to confirm with you so I don't get myself or someone else sick. You say, when cold smoking(I'm talking sausage) you don't monitor the internal temp of the sausage(other then keeping the smoker 80 degrees or under) but you monitor the smoke. You also say, if your going to want some shelf life or freezer time from it you must be sure the cure is all the way to the center of the meat.

One guy told me when I tasted his cold smoked sausage, he smokes over a small bed of coals and uses only green logs for the smoke. He said it takes him 10 days to smoke it this way. At the time I didn't think to ask if he finished the sausage to a certain internal temperature so you don't get sick. He also mentioned he uses morton tender quick.

QUESTION: Are you saying, when you feel you have enough smoke flavor in the sausage it's safe to eat and you don't have to finish hot smoking it to a internal temp. of 152 degrees? If this isn't true, could you walk me through the steps you would do to cold smoke sausage.

I have always used cure #1 for my hot smoking and I have read posts where they say you shouldn't cold smoke any longer then 4-10 hours if using cure #1. What do you think? Maybe that's why the guy used MTQ in his.

Could you please help me out. Thank you.

Larry 

 

[cowgirl]

Cowgirl,

Hi, my name is Larry O'Connor and I have been enjoying this forum for the past 3 months that I have found it. I have been smoking for the past 3 years and since found out how many others are doing the same.

I really want to learn more about cold smoking because I have tasted some cold smoked sausages at parties that blow me away. I'm trying to get this straight in my head of how to go about it but the more posts I read I get more confused. 

Yours seemed to make more sense to me then others but I'd like to confirm with you so I don't get myself or someone else sick. You say, when cold smoking(I'm talking sausage) you don't monitor the internal temp of the sausage(other then keeping the smoker 80 degrees or under) but you monitor the smoke. You also say, if your going to want some shelf life or freezer time from it you must be sure the cure is all the way to the center of the meat.

One guy told me when I tasted his cold smoked sausage, he smokes over a small bed of coals and uses only green logs for the smoke. He said it takes him 10 days to smoke it this way. At the time I didn't think to ask if he finished the sausage to a certain internal temperature so you don't get sick. He also mentioned he uses morton tender quick.

QUESTION: Are you saying, when you feel you have enough smoke flavor in the sausage it's safe to eat and you don't have to finish hot smoking it to a internal temp. of 152 degrees? If this isn't true, could you walk me through the steps you would do to cold smoke sausage.

I have always used cure #1 for my hot smoking and I have read posts where they say you shouldn't cold smoke any longer then 4-10 hours if using cure #1. What do you think? Maybe that's why the guy used MTQ in his.

Could you please help me out. Thank you.

Larry 

Hi Larry,  Welcome to the forum, it's nice to meet you. :)

As far as sausages go, there are two basic kinds.  "ready to eat" sausage  which is either sausage that is hot smoked to an internal temperature that is safe to eat.. 

Also fermented sausage or dried sausage that is safe to eat.

Then there is "not ready to eat" sausage that is cold smoked and needs to be cooked after the cold smoking process.

(you can also make sausage that isn't smoked)

When you cold smoke sausage you are not cooking the sausage. You don't keep track of the internal temperature of the sausage, you monitor the temperature of the smokehouse to keep the temperature cool enough so the fat inside of the sausage does not render.

You can cold smoke sausages for a few hours or longer.. depending on the flavor you want (and the diameter of the sausage).

They can be wrapped or frozen for cooking later.  Cook them like any raw sausage, grill, fry, etc..
 

Any meat that you are going to cold smoke needs to be cured to the center.

I've not heard that about cold smoking and cure #1 but do know that cure #1 is used with sausage...

here's a bit more info on the cures...

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing

and on sausage making...

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making

Hope this helps Larry,

feel free to contact me

jeanie

 

[meateater]

Cowgirl,

Hi, my name is Larry O'Connor and I have been enjoying this forum for the past 3 months that I have found it. I have been smoking for the past 3 years and since found out how many others are doing the same.

I really want to learn more about cold smoking because I have tasted some cold smoked sausages at parties that blow me away. I'm trying to get this straight in my head of how to go about it but the more posts I read I get more confused. 

Yours seemed to make more sense to me then others but I'd like to confirm with you so I don't get myself or someone else sick. You say, when cold smoking(I'm talking sausage) you don't monitor the internal temp of the sausage(other then keeping the smoker 80 degrees or under) but you monitor the smoke. You also say, if your going to want some shelf life or freezer time from it you must be sure the cure is all the way to the center of the meat.

One guy told me when I tasted his cold smoked sausage, he smokes over a small bed of coals and uses only green logs for the smoke. He said it takes him 10 days to smoke it this way. At the time I didn't think to ask if he finished the sausage to a certain internal temperature so you don't get sick. He also mentioned he uses morton tender quick.

QUESTION: Are you saying, when you feel you have enough smoke flavor in the sausage it's safe to eat and you don't have to finish hot smoking it to a internal temp. of 152 degrees? If this isn't true, could you walk me through the steps you would do to cold smoke sausage.

I have always used cure #1 for my hot smoking and I have read posts where they say you shouldn't cold smoke any longer then 4-10 hours if using cure #1. What do you think? Maybe that's why the guy used MTQ in his.

Could you please help me out. Thank you.

Larry 

  Welcome to the SMF. Glad to have you here. Lots of good folks, great recipes and knowledge. Looking forward to  your first qview. 

 

[volcanowatcher]

I am a relative newbie to smoking, and I want to try cold smoking.  How can I cold smoke in my Brinkman Gourment Charcoal smoker? I have an electric heat source, (I live in an area that doesn't allow charcoal grills) and I am dying to do cold smoking. I mention the type of smoker so the experts out there can help me better. I want to buy a cold smoker, but if I can get the job done in my present smoker, then I can go that route.

 

[teeznuts]

Many here use the AMNPS or AMNS smoke generators in our electric smokers. this allows us to get a true cold smoke with minimal or no use of the smokers heat element. my mes barely makes smoke unless I have it set above 140-160 which is too hot for cold smoking.

 

[SmokinAl]

I am a relative newbie to smoking, and I want to try cold smoking.  How can I cold smoke in my Brinkman Gourment Charcoal smoker? I have an electric heat source, (I live in an area that doesn't allow charcoal grills) and I am dying to do cold smoking. I mention the type of smoker so the experts out there can help me better. I want to buy a cold smoker, but if I can get the job done in my present smoker, then I can go that route.

You can cold smoke in a cardboard box with an AMNPS. You don't need a special smoker, the smoker you have will work fine.