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Changing the Brine, how should one proceed with Cure

uriel529

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So, I've got a question!

So. I have retried this experiment and found myself with yet another question

I've had like 8kg of meat in the brine for 11 days, so today I changed the brine.

on the first brine I used 40 gr of curing salt n2 (three to four tablespoons) on 7 liters of water and 8kg meat distributed in 3 cuts of different sizes (15kg total)

I wanna push the meat (2 out of the three pieces at least) to 20 days by making a new brine and letting it sit for another 9 days while I eat the remaining one tommorrow

on the second brine I should use curing salt too. right?

I prepared the new brine with 7 ltrs of water and this time I used 25 gr of curing salt on the brine. is this ok? or I'd be using too much cure n2? I use n2 because it's the only available at my home country!

thanks so much! right now as a precaution I've not put the meat into the brine and one piece is desalinating in cold water and the others are dry resting
 

SmokinEdge

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I prepared the new brine with 7 ltrs of water and this time I used 25 gr of curing salt on the brine. is this ok? or I'd be using too much cure n2? I use n2 because it's the only available at my home country!
Nope that’s fine Uriel. Usually you just make up more of the same brine and replace the old.
How thick are the pieces of meat?
 
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uriel529

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Nope that’s fine Uriel. Usually you just make up more of the same brine and replace the old.
How thick are the pieces of meat?
The brine is as cold as my fridge will go, usually cold enough that it will hurt my hand when turning the meat pieces around. What I’m using is called tapa de asad which is the non fatty smaller part of a whole brisket, I’ve trimmed the thinner ends and it’s around as thick as 1 inch/3cm
i attached a photo of the cure product,

all it says is 3% per kg of meat for charcuterie. (I’m guessing) or 21gr per liter inject up to 10%.
The seller told me that the nitrate and nitrite are around 4-6 % of the weigh. 🤷🏻‍♂️

He is in Argentina work through a translating app, I’m guessing.
n2 is cure #2, but a bit different. It’s all they have for curing salt there.
That hurt my bilingual pride 😞
Damn, My writing skills have become rusty
But yeah, because most of the time I’m reading or listening english, not actively speaking it sometimes I mess up colloquialisms or sound unnatural (for instance #2 I read as number 2, hence, n2 😂)

Yeah, Argentina is special like that, tbh it’s because here the usage of curing salt for charcuterie is much more widespread: the thick of our immigration is historically italian and spanish, so deli meats like chorizo seco, salami and jamon crudo to name a few are the most popular; and since he have close to none smoking and brining traditions (that remain alive) there is no demand for fast curing products, hence only #2 is available. Either way it does not affect the final product because the nitrate never gets absorbed or transformed as far as my modest knowledge goes
 

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SmokinEdge

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The brine is as cold as my fridge will go, usually cold enough that it will hurt my hand when turning the meat pieces around. What I’m using is called tapa de asad which is the non fatty smaller part of a whole brisket, I’ve trimmed the thinner ends and it’s around as thick as 1 inch/3cm



That hurt my bilingual pride 😞
Damn, My writing skills have become rusty
But yeah, because most of the time I’m reading or listening english, not actively speaking it sometimes I mess up colloquialisms (for instance #2 I read as number 2, hence, n2 😂)

Yeah, Argentina is special like that, tbh it’s because here the usage of curing salt for charcuterie is much more widespread: the thick of our immigration is historically italian and spanish, so deli meats like chorizo seco, salami and jamon crudo to name a few are the most popular; and since he have close to none smoking and brining traditions (that remain alive) there is no demand for fast curing products, hence only #2 is available. Either way it does not affect the final product because the nitrate never gets absorbed or transformed as far as my modest knowledge goes
Sorry Uriel, I didnt mean to offend, only help.

With pieces only 1 inch thick, I advice not to brine longer. Pull it and let it rest in the refrigerator for another 10 days in a plastic bag, but take it out of the brine.

As to the nitrate, since it does not get broken down into nitrite and continue converting into nitric oxide in your process , you then consume that nitrate directly. This is why we have cure #1 with only nitrite that is used for short curing like sausage or bacon, and cure #2 with both nitrite and nitrate. The nitrate is for longer curing such as county ham or salami.
 

uriel529

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Sorry Uriel, I didnt mean to offend, only help.

With pieces only 1 inch thick, I advice not to brine longer. Pull it and let it rest in the refrigerator for another 10 days in a plastic bag, but take it out of the brine.

As to the nitrate, since it does not get broken down into nitrite and continue converting into nitric oxide in your process , you then consume that nitrate directly. This is why we have cure #1 with only nitrite that is used for short curing like sausage or bacon, and cure #2 with both nitrite and nitrate. The nitrate is for longer curing such as county ham or salami.
I know I’m kidding, you didn’t offend me at all 😂

How thicker should it be then if I want to leave it longer in the brine?
a plastic bag or in a rack so air can move around it?
Doesn’t affect the final product, just the body then 🙃

Either way, then, if I were to brine them longer( I probably wont, given the advice, but I’ll see how thick the meat actually is) should the brine include the cure or since the meat absorbed the cure from the first brine it’s redundant? using half the amount of cure in this second brining liquid is allright then? Hust asking because I can get the other part of a brisket (the fattier one) and I’d like to try a longer brine 👌🏻
Thanks so much!
 

SmokinEdge

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I know I’m kidding, you didn’t offend me at all 😂

How thicker should it be then if I want to leave it longer in the brine?
a plastic bag or in a rack so air can move around it?
Doesn’t affect the final product, just the body then 🙃

Either way, then, if I were to brine them longer( I probably wont, given the advice, but I’ll see how thick the meat actually is) should the brine include the cure or since the meat absorbed the cure from the first brine it’s redundant? using half the amount of cure in this second brining liquid is allright then? Hust asking because I can get the other part of a brisket (the fattier one) and I’d like to try a longer brine 👌🏻
Thanks so much!
What do you think you will gain in a longer brine?
 

uriel529

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What do you think you will gain in a longer brine?
I dont know, that’s why I want to experiment, it’s the way I learnt to cook and how I like to relate with my projects. 🤷🏻‍♂️
also, it’s not that I’m going blind and just eyeballed the number, but there’s too many diverging pov on time of brine and cooking process, so I might as well find out what works for me
I read that katz’s brines for up yo a month. While I’ve my doubts I did see an important modification to flavor and tenderness between 5 and 11 days, so I want to ser what happens at 15.
 
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SmokinEdge

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I dont know, that’s why I want to experiment, it’s the way I learnt to cook and how I like to relate with my projects. 🤷🏻‍♂️
also, it’s not that I’m going blind and just eyeballed the number, but there’s too many diverging pov on time of brine and cooking process, so I might as well find out what works for me
I read that katz’s brines for up yo a month. While I’ve my doubts I did see an important modification to flavor and tenderness between 5 and 11 days, so I want to ser what happens at 15.
If you want to go long on a thin piece of meat in brine like a brisket flat. I would suggest brining with an equilibrium brine where salt, cure, meat are all weighed and we apply the cure only for the weight, not just generically. I think the brine you are using will make the salt level too high and possibly the nitrite/nitrates too high if the meat is left longer.
Ultimately, the brine and the meat will come to equilibrium. Problem is the brine you are using is not mixed for a specific weight of meat. It’s stronger than is needed, as all basic brines are, and the meat will absorb that salt.
 

uriel529

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If you want to go long on a thin piece of meat in brine like a brisket flat. I would suggest brining with an equilibrium brine where salt, cure, meat are all weighed and we apply the cure only for the weight, not just generically. I think the brine you are using will make the salt level too high and possibly the nitrite/nitrates too high if the meat is left longer.
Ultimately, the brine and the meat will come to equilibrium. Problem is the brine you are using is not mixed for a specific weight of meat. It’s stronger than is needed, as all basic brines are, and the meat will absorb that salt.
Thanks, that is an important piece of info, as I was going by weigh alone and not thickness; so how/ where can Learn to calculate in relation to these variables? I’d like to try this out and play around with it but I need some solid knowledge. They’ve been less than 1 day in the brine so I think they shoyld still be ok. Tomorrow I’ll take them from the brine. One I’ll cook as corned beef at 71 for 36 hours; the last one I dunno what I’ll do
 

SmokinEdge

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Thanks, that is an important piece of info, as I was going by weigh alone and not thickness; so how/ where can Learn to calculate in relation to these variables? I’d like to try this out and play around with it but I need some solid knowledge. They’ve been less than 1 day in the brine so I think they shoyld still be ok. Tomorrow I’ll take them from the brine. One I’ll cook as corned beef at 71 for 36 hours; the last one I dunno what I’ll do
Equilibrium brine is where we combine the meat weight with the water weight then calculate the percent salt, sugar and cure for that total weight. Different than regular brine where it is typically cups of salt and sugar to 1 gallon of water And the meat weight is not considered just that there is enough brine to cover.
You will have to weigh your meat and decide how much water will cover, but I will give you a sample of equilibrium brine With a random meat weight You can adjust that for your application.

So let’s use, 4 liters water weighs 4000 grams (4 kg) and a 5 kg piece of meat. 1.75% salt, 1.0% sugar and 0.25% cure.(Total salt will be 2.0% if cure is included)

Solve:
4000 + 5000 = 9000 grams (meat and water combined)
Salt) 9000 x 0.0175 = 157.5 grams
Sugar) 9000 x 0.01 = 90.0 grams
Cure) 9000 x 0.0025 = 22.5 grams
Add whatever spices you like to taste.
 

jiwkeini

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The brine is as cold as my fridge will go, usually cold enough that it will hurt my hand when turning the meat pieces around. What I’m using is called tapa de asad which is the non fatty smaller part of a whole brisket, I’ve trimmed the thinner ends and it’s around as thick as 1 inch/3cm
i attached a photo of the cure product,

all it says is 3% per kg of meat for charcuterie. (I’m guessing) or 21gr per liter inject up to 10%.
The seller told me that the nitrate and nitrite are around 4-6 % of the weigh. 🤷🏻‍♂️


That hurt my bilingual pride 😞
Damn, My writing skills have become rusty
But yeah, because most of the time I’m reading or listening english, not actively speaking it sometimes I mess up colloquialisms or sound unnatural (for instance #2 I read as number 2, hence, n2 😂)

Yeah, Argentina is special like that, tbh it’s because here the usage of curing salt for charcuterie is much more widespread: the thick of our immigration is historically italian and spanish, so deli meats like chorizo seco, salami and jamon crudo to name a few are the most popular; and since he have close to none smoking and brining traditions (that remain alive) there is no demand for fast curing products, hence only #2 is available. Either way it does not affect the final product app linked because the nitrate never gets absorbed or transformed as far as my modest knowledge goes
same here.
 
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indaswamp

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all it says is 3% per kg of meat for charcuterie. (I’m guessing) or 21gr per liter inject up to 10%.
The seller told me that the nitrate and nitrite are around 4-6 % of the weigh.
For the sake of accuracy, the label says 3 grams per Kg., which is 0.3% per kilo, not 3% per kilo.....and accuracy counts when it comes to curing salts.

As for the rest of your inquiry, SmokinEdge is giving you sound advice.
 

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