Corn beef question, well kinda?

Discussion in 'Beef' started by daddyzaring, Apr 2, 2011.

  1. daddyzaring

    daddyzaring Smoking Fanatic

    What makes corn beef, corn beef?  I am think about making some burgers, and was trying to figure out how to make them taste like corn beef, and make some ruben burgers.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Jeff
     
  2. beer-b-q

    beer-b-q Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Corned Beef is Brisket that has been Cured with Cure #1 or Tender Quick.
     
  3. daddyzaring

    daddyzaring Smoking Fanatic

    Can you cure ground beef, or make it taste cured?
     
  4. big twig

    big twig Smoking Fanatic

    The cure makes it corned beef but I have found that ground beef doesn't hold up well to the curing process.  I have tried to cure the beef before it is cooked and I have also ground corned beef but neither were very successful in the long run of things. If you take a corned beef brisket it doesn't have enough fat content to hold into a patty and I have also tried to get more fat ground into it but I was not successful. If you add eggs or any bread product your not making a burger your making meatballs or meatloaf so I make my Reuben burgers 1 of 2 ways. 1) mixing sauerkraut into the burger (sometimes with mustard seed, juniper berries, kosher salt and brown sugar for more of the corned taste without the whole curing process, make sure you grind these spices not whole) before cooking it then topping with the Swiss and Russian dressing. 2) making the burger then topping with sauerkraut, Swiss and Russian dressing. I tend to make it more the second way because I like my burgers simple but if I am in the mood for something different I would rather just have the toppings change instead messing with the main ingredient. Both are very good and I have gotten plenty of praise for both. One thing that people and I really like is I cook my sauerkraut with a lot of red pepper flakes which gives it a real nice heat, my grandmother can't take it but I swear if I even touch a red pepper container she could taste it in the food (very weak when it comes to heat, I am a chili head myself).

    I hope I could help a little. let me know what you came up with. I make more then 30 burgers and have been begged to open a burger bar but not enough capital to start it yet. Soon enough I will have one though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
  5. daddyzaring

    daddyzaring Smoking Fanatic

    I was thinking of making a stuffed ruben sandwich.  I been cooking alot of krauwt lately when I smoke hamburgers and hotdogs and sausages.  I tried some on a burgurger, and it was really good.  My folks love the food I smoke especially the stuffed burgers, and fatties.  I know my Mom loves ruben sandwiches, so I was trying too figure out how to do it.  Is the dressings you mentioned a normal ingredient in a ruben sandwich?

    I was just going to ask about grinding up a corn beef brisket, because I remembered I have a 2.4 hp grinder I haven't even used yet. lol
     
  6. rosiepug

    rosiepug Fire Starter

    I'm not a butcher, but I thing that you can take most any meat cuts an "pickle" or "corn" :droolThumbs Upthem.
     
  7. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Corned beef can any cut of beef that's cured and spiced, usually made out of the cheaper fatter cuts like brisket or navel but lean rounds are used too.

    I never tried to make a burger out of one but it sounds good to me.  Like BIG TWIG mentioned you won't get the meat to bind. I don't think its the fat content but the fact that it's cured and the soluable proteins in the meat that cause the meat to bind together are locked up from the cure. (not sure of the exact reason but I know it won't bind like fresh beef and a little salt.)

    If I was to try it (and I probably will now) here's how I'd do it.

    Mix some ground beef with cure #1, spices and salt then mix it like you were going to make sausage. Mix untill it the meat starts sticking to your fingers,  then let it rest for 12-24 hours to let the flavors balance out and give the cure a chance to do it's thing. Form it into patties and fry them up.

    The typical spices for corn beef are allspice, bayleaf, black pepper, garlic and brown sugar. I'm not sure on how much total spice I would use, normally for sausage it would be 1%-2% of the total weight of the batch. I think I'd go 2% and adjust on the following batches.

    Sound like an interesting experiment, let us know what ya think of it if ya try it
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
  8. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★


    It sounds like it would work to me, I'm not an expert on cured meats, but if your really trying to "corn" the ground beef, wouldn't you want to let it cure for a few days. Not just 12-24 hours?
     
  9. danmcg

    danmcg Master of the Pit OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Being that the the meat is ground and the cure is mixed in it should only take hours Al. The cure come in contact with a lot more surface area. Whole muscle meats need time for the cure to work its way from the outside to the center of the piece which takes time, days usually depending on the thickness.  If you were to inject the whole muscle with a cure brine you are getting the cure to the center faster and the cure time would be less then a dry rub. Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
  10. big twig

    big twig Smoking Fanatic

    Yes Russian dressing is on a Reuben but most people won't kill you if you use Thousand Island. DanMcG I am gonna have to try it more your way next time, it sounds like it would work. Keep us posted!
     
  11. If a person brined a couple chuck roasts and then ground them this should work...you would have the fat content you need with the corned tasted you desire.

    What if you grind a corned beef after trimming the fat cap and mix it with 70/30 ground beef? Maybe a third ground corned to two thirds 70/30.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
  12. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Sure can cure ground beef.
     

    Take some ground beef, mix the proper amount of cure # 1 or TQ, throw in a little seasoning, and smoke it----------------Equals Smoked Sausage.

    Bear
     
  13. smokinal

    smokinal Smoking Guru Staff Member Moderator OTBS Member ★ Lifetime Premier ★

    Thanks for clearing that up Dan!
     
  14. venture

    venture Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Sounds like a bulk beef sausage to me?  Why not? You could also stuff them, smoke them, and butterfly them to go on the sandwich.  Let us know how it goes if you try it.

    Good luck and good smoking!
     
  15. daddyzaring

    daddyzaring Smoking Fanatic

    Can anyone help me figure out where to  find how to measure the right amount of TQ to mix with my ground beef?  The directions on the package seemed kind of vauge to me.
     
  16. bearcarver

    bearcarver Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    It is one half of the TQ you use for whole meat.

    Whole meat (Bacon, Dried Beef, etc)--------------------------1 TBS (1/2 ounce) per pound of meat.

    Ground Beef (Beef Sticks, Bear Logs, etc)--------------------1/2 TBS (1/4 ounce) per pound of ground meat.

    Bear
     
  17. venture

    venture Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Maybe I will catch flack for this, but oh well.  I would use cure #1 as in a smoked sausage recipe.  Using TQ in this application will make salt control very difficult.  Others obviously have other opinions.  I like TQ for bacon and such, but in a beef sausage like this, which will not have extended cure/dry times, I find the salt easier to control with cure #1.  Whatever you do, let us know how it worked.

    Good luck and good smoking!
     
  18. venture

    venture Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Maybe I will catch flack for this, but oh well.  I would use cure #1 as in a smoked sausage recipe.  Using TQ in this application will make salt control very difficult.  Others obviously have other opinions.  I like TQ for bacon and such, but in a beef sausage like this, I find the salt easier to control with cure #1.  Whatever you do, let us know how it worked.

    Good luck and good smoking!
     
  19. smoker01

    smoker01 Newbie

    what is TQ ?
     
  20. daddyzaring

    daddyzaring Smoking Fanatic

    TQ=Tender Quick  It is a meat cure bby Morton.

    I am not sure where to find #1 cure.  I thought I'd never find this TQ.
     

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