I will do science to it! Smoke + Sous Vide

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Yes, yes... this is all well and good... But It Is Not BBQ... I might understand the traction this post has gotten if it was posted in Food Safety, but in the Electric Smokers sub-forum? Not to mention that the original post was made over 2 years ago and got resurrected in March of this year, it seems that this is as much a history lesson as it is a debate on food safety... and now ...Back to Barbeque
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Yes, yes... this is all well and good... But It Is Not BBQ... I might understand the traction this post has gotten if it was posted in Food Safety, but in the Electric Smokers sub-forum? Not to mention that the original post was made over 2 years ago and got resurrected in March of this year, it seems that this is as much a history lesson as it is a debate on food safety... and now ...Back to Barbeque
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Most all of these posts have had some reference to either grilling or smoking at some point, even the title is "...Smoke + Sous Vide!" not just Sous Vide.

And the Sous Vide machines are electric, and many use electric smokers.  The consensus is that it is smoked or grilled first, then Sous Vide to its doneness, which is an electrically operated machine.  It does fit here very well.
 
FWIW,

For brisket I sous vide for about 36 hours (usually 24-48 hours), then smoke in a MES 40 with an AMNPS for 6-8 hours until a decent bark has formed. Completely naked - no rubs, nothing. No trimming, packer cut brisket from the store.
 

After sous vide cooking, I have to be real careful to not tear the brisket apart trying to get it into the smoker.

As far as the results? Considering I lose 1/2 to 1 lbs even before I cut it up from co-workers picking at the brisket like vultures, I'd say it turns out OK.
 
I am interested in both, and joined today to start thinking about building a smoker, maybe next year.  I have thought about using low temp water bath to say heat ribs up to 140 then smoking it at that temp. Maybe presear or finish on a broiler or grill.  Now it would have a very different texture from barbeque as you will not render fat the same way, but it could be smoky meaty goodness.
 
Don't pre-sear. Everything I've read and done concerning sous vide tells me that the char will be soggy and washed out. Best to char post-sous vide.

If you're talking about pre-searing before smoking, I don't have any experience on that.

But pork ribs aren't tough like brisket, so don't really need to be broken down as much. However, it might be worthwhile to sous vide a couple racks overnight, then smoke in the morning. I might just have to try that.
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Don't pre-sear. Everything I've read and done concerning sous vide tells me that the char will be soggy and washed out. Best to char post-sous vide.

If you're talking about pre-searing before smoking, I don't have any experience on that.

But pork ribs aren't tough like brisket, so don't really need to be broken down as much. However, it might be worthwhile to sous vide a couple racks overnight, then smoke in the morning. I might just have to try that.
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Dave Arnold of Cooking Issues recommends a pre and post sear for low temp meats like steak.  Pre searing starts building flavors and kills surface pathogens.  It will not replace post searing but it is a beneficial method for typical SV meat cooking. And maybe I meant short ribs...

My thought was never raise their temperature up above say 155.  This may or may not be a good idea though.  The thought was that useing the water bath to get the meat to a safe temp faster than air then smoke it in at a lower temp similar to the water bath.
 
Done right , it could happen... intresting , but... a lot of the attraction of the Smoke is sitting ,visiting , tending the fire and simple is the word here if you have the time to stay with it to the end.

Being out in the fresh air (although Cold and Hot at times), is another reason I enjoy Smoking  however , each to thier own and that's good in it's own.

My honest opinion is to keep some things as is , and as my name says , I'm Oldschool
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Done right , it could happen... intresting , but... a lot of the attraction of the Smoke is sitting ,visiting , tending the fire and simple is the word here if you have the time to stay with it to the end.

Being out in the fresh air (although Cold and Hot at times), is another reason I enjoy Smoking  however , each to thier own and that's good in it's own.

My honest opinion is to keep some things as is , and as my name says , I'm Oldschool
texas.gif
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And I am an industrial engineer who automates processes and the like, so I like the idea of self precision automation control and the like.  It cuts down the man hours for one.
 
Funny enough, that's why I do both automated and manual processes, because I enjoy both. The controller lets me sous vide for 24+ hours without having to manually maintain the cooker temps, but I still have to attend to my smoker sometimes.

And even though it's easier, I actually used to enjoy my cheap junk offset firebox smoker more than the MES 40 I have now. The MES is very convenient, but it doesn't feel "hands-on" enough, and someday I'll get another to use in combo with the MES. You can't go wrong with a MES 40 and an AMNPS, though.
 
Funny enough, that's why I do both automated and manual processes, because I enjoy both. The controller lets me sous vide for 24+ hours without having to manually maintain the cooker temps, but I still have to attend to my smoker sometimes.

And even though it's easier, I actually used to enjoy my cheap junk offset firebox smoker more than the MES 40 I have now. The MES is very convenient, but it doesn't feel "hands-on" enough, and someday I'll get another to use in combo with the MES. You can't go wrong with a MES 40 and an AMNPS, though.
I will have to keep that in mind, would adding a PID to the MES 40 make sense?
 
I will have to keep that in mind, would adding a PID to the MES 40 make sense?
Only if you need really, really precise control - more than what I can tell is necessary. BBQ doesn't need 1/10th degree precision in my experience. A PID would give much smaller temp fluctuations as the MES drifts a few degrees above and below the set point, but it doesn't seem to matter as the thermal velocity through the meat averages out the fluctuations anyway. Sous vide and homebrewing are different as +-5 degrees can be raw/overcooked or mashed at too high/low of a temp.

I just learn my MES 40 - given a temp recommendation, how does my BBQ turn out? It would help if I could tell how far off the MES thermometer is - but I don't have access to an accurate thermometer.

All this is just my opinion, however. I'm by no means an expert - and after watching How It's Made, I wish I were a process engineer.
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Only if you need really, really precise control - more than what I can tell is necessary. BBQ doesn't need 1/10th degree precision in my experience. A PID would give much smaller temp fluctuations as the MES drifts a few degrees above and below the set point, but it doesn't seem to matter as the thermal velocity through the meat averages out the fluctuations anyway. Sous vide and homebrewing are different as +-5 degrees can be raw/overcooked or mashed at too high/low of a temp.

I just learn my MES 40 - given a temp recommendation, how does my BBQ turn out? It would help if I could tell how far off the MES thermometer is - but I don't have access to an accurate thermometer.

All this is just my opinion, however. I'm by no means an expert - and after watching How It's Made, I wish I were a process engineer.
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It can be fun filming equipment at 1000 frames per second.  Of course it is not working properly when I am doing that but it is still cool.  Now pulling your hair out for weeks when you can not figure out why something is not working right...

Looking at the MES it seems more sophisticated electronically than I thought, so switching to PID control would be more difficult.  I am thinking about just getting an electric element like a replacement smoker heating element I see on amazon and building my own box with a PID controller.  But I get torn about wood that I could build it easily out of or metal where I don't have a lot of experience with sheet metal work or welding.

I want to be able to play around with low temperature smoking so a well controlled smoker could be interesting, and possibly even useful for fish and the like, or keeping a more sous vide/low temp principle on a smoked product.
 
Why do you want to smoke first and the sous vide. Why not start doing the brisket sous vide and the do the smoking to add a nice crust? My suggestion would be to sous vide at 135F for 48 hours and then smoke at 65C for another 8 hours.
 
I am interested in both, and joined today to start thinking about building a smoker, maybe next year.  I have thought about using low temp water bath to say heat ribs up to 140 then smoking it at that temp. Maybe presear or finish on a broiler or grill.  Now it would have a very different texture from barbeque as you will not render fat the same way, but it could be smoky meaty goodness.
Don't pre-sear. Everything I've read and done concerning sous vide tells me that the char will be soggy and washed out. Best to char post-sous vide.

If you're talking about pre-searing before smoking, I don't have any experience on that.

But pork ribs aren't tough like brisket, so don't really need to be broken down as much. However, it might be worthwhile to sous vide a couple racks overnight, then smoke in the morning. I might just have to try that.
biggrin.gif
Dave Arnold of Cooking Issues recommends a pre and post sear for low temp meats like steak.  Pre searing starts building flavors and kills surface pathogens.  It will not replace post searing but it is a beneficial method for typical SV meat cooking. And maybe I meant short ribs...

My thought was never raise their temperature up above say 155.  This may or may not be a good idea though.  The thought was that useing the water bath to get the meat to a safe temp faster than air then smoke it in at a lower temp similar to the water bath.
Done right , it could happen... intresting , but... a lot of the attraction of the Smoke is sitting ,visiting , tending the fire and simple is the word here if you have the time to stay with it to the end.

Being out in the fresh air (although Cold and Hot at times), is another reason I enjoy Smoking  however , each to thier own and that's good in it's own.

My honest opinion is to keep some things as is , and as my name says , I'm Oldschool
texas.gif
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Just so we are all clear, this is what preseared meat looks like-

c0ecc695_presear.jpg


Just for the record the OP of this thread joined 4 years ago, last posted over 2 years ago and, by his own admission, never got a smoker, never cooked with charcoal and cooked meat with a "Popiel rotisserie". Doesn't take long to find all 32 of his posts, can you say "troll".

I stand with oldschool.
 
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Why do you want to smoke first and the sous vide. Why not start doing the brisket sous vide and the do the smoking to add a nice crust? My suggestion would be to sous vide at 135F for 48 hours and then smoke at 65C for another 8 hours.
Hoerup, morning and welcome to the forum.... I see this is your first post.....  Please introduce yourself in the roll call forum,

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/f/133/roll-call   so folks can give you a proper welcome.....  Let us know your areas of interest and any areas of expertise you may have....  Please include your location ....   We are glad to have new members and share ideas....  You may find this forum addicting so enjoy the long smokey ride....    Dave
 
That's not pre-seared meat, that's just raw meat.  
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Maybe you meant pre-seasoned?

Pre-seared in this context means meat that's grilled before going into the water oven. I might try it on a steak sometime just to see for myself how it turns out.

OP may have been a troll, but the rest of us honest posters made a decent discussion out of it.
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That's not pre-seared meat, that's just raw meat.  
confused.gif


Maybe you meant pre-seasoned?

Pre-seared in this context means meat that's grilled before going into the water oven. I might try it on a steak sometime just to see for myself how it turns out.

OP may have been a troll, but the rest of us honest posters made a decent discussion out of it.
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Pre-seared in the context that you are thinking of apparently means "seared before being placed in the water oven", which is what you may have wanted to say but only got somewhat close to saying it.In this case I am correct. Pre (meaning before) sear (being placed on a very hot grill-a variation of your context) thus-

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Doesn't matter if it is seasoned or not, only that it has not yet been placed on that very hot grill.
 
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