darrin weimert
Newbie
- Oct 3, 2012
- 5
- 10
I would think that you would be okay if cooked right away if you inject it room temp mixture, also should you let your brisket get to room temp before you cook it like i do other beef cuts??
brisket injection
- Thread starter kanadan
- Start date
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Darrin, evening.... Any whole, intact meat muscle that has been injected, should be injected at 40 deg or lower.... and it needs to go on the heat ASAP so it can get to an internal temp of 140 within 4 hours.... If you have the smoker fired up to temp, I suppose you can inject a hot marinade, brine... that would help get the IT up faster.... the 4 hour 40-140 still applies.... Heat the brine, marinade up to 185 first to kill all the bad stuff...... Unless you can insure the injection process and injection liquid was sterile.... so no bacteria was injected with it..... Non whole muscle whether injected or not needs this "heat to 140 within 4 hours" for food safety... "meat loaf, boned and tied roast, meat glued turkey breast, meat glued fancy steak wrapped in bacon" all are examples of non intact muscles.....
I think the "bring to room temp" is only for a steak going on the grill... don't know for sure... That is a scary rule, as far as food safety is concerned.....
Dave
bloodbath
Fire Starter
Cover the brisket with plastic wrap, and poke the injector through the plastic wrap. No mess at all
turnandburn
Master of the Pit
i was watching an old re-run of pitmasters and one of the guys and one girl on there was saying they pull their brisket out and let it get to room temp, as to help with moisture and tenderness because a cold brisket is a leather brisket...im thinking...WTF!!??? moisture and tenderness..??...???? no f##@in' way!!! lol. ive also seen a few youtube vids where ppl try to explain how to make a real texas brisket...wrong...haha. which also involves letting sit til it reaches room temp, because you dont want the muscle to be that tight or itll be leather. again...wrong! lol.
I don't understand this logic? Its all being cooked regardless, why does it have to be 4 hours to 140*?
Tac.... evening.... A whole muscle is considered "sterile" on the inside..... Therefor, a long slow cook is permissible because there are no pathogens to grow which can kill you.....
When you inject, you inject bacteria and pathogens..... they grow during the temp zone of 40-140 and especially fast in a moist environment....
4 hours to get to 140 is a "rule" (not really) a "guideline" based on bacterial growth in the lab at different times, temps etc for different bacteria and pathogens......
Aren't you glad you stopped in here... Great place to learn stuff... Food Safety included.... We want you to be a great cook and live to tell about it......
Dave
Dave - Thanks for the explanation and it does make sense. So is there any harm in injecting meat the night before a smoke? For example, I just injected a pork shoulder and it will be in the fridge for 24 hours before it hits the smoker. So it will be quite some time before I can get it to 140*
Kept it in the fridge it will be OK...... Preheat the smoker to 225 ish or higher before removing the meat from the refer... and take pics for us to see..
Dave
Dave
screamatamonkey
Newbie
- Dec 5, 2013
- 1
- 10
Yes, but isn't that why with non-whole muscle meats, like ground beef for example, the FDA recommends bringing the internal temperature of the meat up to 165F to kill any bacteria that might be present in the meat? If 165F kills any bacteria present in a piece of meat, I would think that a brisket (which in most cases isn't even considered done until around 200F) would be hot enough for a long enough amount of time to kill any potential bacteria that injecting would introduce. This would also make letting the meat come up to room temperature on it's own before smoking a non-issue. Am I missing something here?
slingerland
Fire Starter
It's not just the bacteria themselves, remember that some bacteria produce poisonous waste products (like botulin) that can survive the heat. So while cooking may eventually kill the bacteria, if the cook takes too long the bacteria may make enough waste to sicken the consumer.
- Jan 6, 2011
- 26,255
- 4,705
On injecting, depends on what part of the country you are from or competing in. Also if its local and you know what flavor people like or the judges are looking for.
Around my neck of the woods, no injecting. I like to keep my brisket simple, Salt and pepper, low and slow. But again depends on where you live. Some like sauce some don't, Sweet, vinegary, mustard, ketchup depends on your taste. If competing ask around try to find out what the judges are looking for. You never know for sure. If you do brisket right it doesn't injecting. My two cents worth
Gary
Around my neck of the woods, no injecting. I like to keep my brisket simple, Salt and pepper, low and slow. But again depends on where you live. Some like sauce some don't, Sweet, vinegary, mustard, ketchup depends on your taste. If competing ask around try to find out what the judges are looking for. You never know for sure. If you do brisket right it doesn't injecting. My two cents worth
Gary
- May 12, 2011
- 22,172
- 7,150
Injecting can introduce surface Bacteria deep into the meat. With really thick roasts like a Pork Butt the interior can stay at the optimal temp for bacteria to multiply, 70 to 100°F, for many hours. The result can be rapid growth. Now this sounds like it is not that big a deal because we will smoke the meat to an IT of 200+ and kill all the bacteria. But some bacteria make Heat Stable Toxins as they multiply. These toxins can make you sick...Under normal circumstances, smoking at a constant temp of 225°F or higher, Pork Butts and a Packer Brisket has no trouble getting the IT above 140 in 4 hours or less so no issue and nothing to worry about. However, if you choose to inject meat, extra care must be taken to guarantee the smoker temp stays above 225 until the IT reaches 140°F or higher...JJ
Ok, looking for clarification. I though I just saw something posted on these boards within the last couple of months that the 4/140 rule no longer applies? That, there was no need to hold off inserting thermometer probes. I can easily believe I misread it because it surprized me when I saw it.
- May 12, 2011
- 22,172
- 7,150
Therm probes have been up for debate as other than supposition, there is no verifiable proof online of anyone getting sick from inserting a probe in Raw Meat. USDA, FDA and CDC have nothing on it whatsoever. 40 to 140 in 4? It is a cautionary " guideline " accepted by SMF. It mostly applies to uncured Ground meat. As far as Injection, Punching in Garlic, Etc. and Boned Rolled and Tied meat...Are you going to fall over dead if the meat takes 4.25 hours or even 5 hours to get above 140°F? Not likely...BUT...Buy your meat then stop to eat a Pizza on the way home during July in Baton Rouge, get distracted at home and the meat sits on the counter a couple of hours, Freeze it then defrost overnight and all day on the counter, load said non-intact meat in the Smoker and Fall Asleep only to wake up 6 hours later and find the fire died, power went out or not as much gas as you thought, minutes after you passed out...NOW YOU GOT A PROBLEM! Yes, this scenario is unlikely and possibly ridiculous, but my point is any ONE mistake will probably not hurt any healthy individual. It takes multiple cases of neglect to become a risk. However, a simple guideline like 40 to 140 in 4 adds a margin of Safety just in case you or someone else, that handled the meat, made a mistake. Now I need to add, if you are feeding High Risk individuals, the very young the very old and anyone with a compromised immune system...You have no room for any mistakes when it comes to Food Safety!...JJ
Last edited:
Hey JJ.........how about posting this last reply as a new post so others will have a chance to read and perhaps it will put this probe discussion to bed.
Lamar
Lamar
I understand completely. NOW if its ground and not cured, I don't smoke it. I have never done a fatty even. You always hear of the problems with ground meats and rabbit foods. TacoBell at least twice a year, you never hear of a steak house, they must get better lettuce...>LOL
I since comming into the site, I never probe when the meat is added to the smoker. Everything smoked takes 2+ hours anyway. So why open a juice leaker before its necessary anyway?
But I had seen something here lately on the site about the 4/140 rule being abolished and I figured you'd know about what it was if anyone did. Sure seems it linked a USDA site about it though. I'll have to remember who's post it was. I know I have seen some heated discussions about it.
I always believe in safety first. I still do things my way and I am pretty sure that its damn safe. To my knowledge I have never caused an illness from my food, would like to hold on to that record, (and some in my early days could have been questionable).
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