40" MES 800 watt heating element MOD

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Possible Mod to Your Mod???

If I were to go through the work of replacing the element, I would figure a way to switch the element from 1200 watts to 600 watts.

At 600 watts, you could maintain lower temps and boost it up to 1200 when needed. Cabelas sells a unit with a 600 watt and 1200 watt switch.

Just a thought?!?!?



Todd
 
What you said above is essentially my plan.

Below is IMHO

I believe the Masterbuilt engineers had the 40" basic design correct for smoking at 220-275º, too many watts = more BTUs thus higher cooking temp so with normal heat loss the 750w elements do fine. That is until the door is opened, and not so good during initial ramp up to set temp.

750 watts puts out 2560 BTUs of heat. The approx. amount of BTUs to hold the 40" MES at 50º outside ambient is about 2000 BTUs. The extra 22% of BTUs the at 750watts just isn't enough to overcome door openings below 70º outside ambients and the same for ramp up to set temp.

Of course MES owners complained about lousy ramp to set temp and poor temp recovery when door is open, and Masterbuilt upped the watts. But I have found that once all the metal is thoroughly heated (preheat) that recovery is actually fairly quick. Anyway Masterbuilt sticks a 1200 watt element that puts out nearly 4100 BTUs of heat. So whenever that element is on it is cooking a lot hotter than the old 750 watt element. Whatever is closest to that element is NOT going to cook at same rate as the upper grates because there is a heck of a lot of extra heat. Personally I think Masterbuilt did a bit of overkill on the extra wattage, they should have modified the controller to allow temps up 325 to cook and crisp up chicken, the new 1200 watt elements can easily achieve that temp and higher.

I want to avoid cooking the meat at higher temps..

Solution...

Two stage heating.
Primary stage is my 750 watt element which will handle main cooking duty.
Secondary element 300-400 watts, that will only kick on if the MES internal temp drops -15-20º from set temp, and will cycle off when internal temp returns to within -5º of set temp. The primary can easily get the MES up another 5 deg.

I'm looking for a PID controller than can handle the logic of a set point with multiple triggers and control twin circuits. Of course the price will have to be reasonable. If I can't find such a controller, then I will simply put the secondary on a seperate circuit with its own PID controller that I would have to manually set below Primary setting.
 
That sound good I am going to do the 12 or 14 gauge wire upgrade and posible make a kit so others can do the same. I hope we you can get the 2 stage heating element mod to work. I will take my PCB apart and take some pics for you if that will help. I would like to see if the Main power Board on the new MES 40" is the same as mine with the 800 watt heating element.
 
It just occured to me to have you call Masterbuilt and ask if they have the rewire kit available yet, I do know it was in the works.
 
I just called masterbuilt and talked to Amanda in the customer service department about a rewire kit. She stated they do not have a kit available. i asked if they where going to make a kit available. She stated that they have a body kit available to fix the bad wiring issues with the older MES's. Ronp is there someone you have been talking to at masterbuilt about a rewiring kit maybe she was unaware of one in the works.

I have been looking into all the parts i will need IE high temp 12 or 14 gauge wire, high temp female connectors, and rivets to replace the ones you have to drill out to get to the bad wiring. I will keep everyone informed of my progress on the kit. Thanks to Ronp for the information.
 
Yes if you are very careful drilling out the rivets you should be able to use screws. This would make it much easier to get the back off again to change anything else that could go bad. Good idea. I wonder what others have use to reattach there backs.
 
Yes I was talking to someone else, I'll try and contact him again. You are welcome also.
 
I did purchased all the wire and connectors to do the wiring mod. I just finished doing the upgrade. i will start a new post on the complete job with pics and all the details. I am still waiting for the new 1200 Heating element to install it and run a smoke test. I will post the complete 1200 watt heating element mod when i complete the mod.
 
Awesome Post!!!

Is there a way to switch my current heating element to 1/2 the wattage?

If the controller switches the element on & off, why couldn't a rheostat be placed in-line, just before the element?

Any Electrical Engineers out there?


Todd
 
I'm not an EE, but I play one on the interweb...
PDT_Armataz_01_22.gif


A rheostat that can handle that kind of power will be huge, and you won't be saving any electricity; in effect, you're just moving some of the heat outside the smoker. A better option would be a variac, which you can usually find on eBay, but it'll also be rather big and heavy. I think your best bet would be a solid-state light dimmer, if you can find one that will handle that much juice. The dimmer should definitely be cheaper than either of the other options.
 
I asked Illini since he owns both the older MES 40" and the newer 1200 watt version about the additional heat. Plus I have always found Illini to be very reliable and he loves to tinker so he is always thinking on how to improve something.

I hope he doesn't mind me quoting his PM response to my question:
Note he is referring to large cuts of meat, "pork butts, ribs, brisket" not heat sensitive like sausages and such.
So there is input from one very experienced MES owner.

Does that change my opinion about the extra heat, and why I would prefer staged heat. Not necessarily, I would like to see some tests with a number of probes and in a variety of situations from very low outdoor ambient to high ambient. I know that staged heating is used in HVAC and other applications as a way to save on electrical costs, so there is another benefit. I still intend to do a staged heating mod as a fun project,

I posted the above info because I know many are really happy with their 1200 watt units, and field experience is a better indicator than my quess or theory, how something works.
 
The main reason i decided to do this mod. I was attempting to smoke a 15 lb brisket and 4 racks of ribs at the same time. I have done this in the past 3 times with no issues. But this time the outside temp was a little colder (28 deg). Unlike last time i did the same amount of meat the temp was around 75 deg. I had a real issue with the heat coming up to 225 deg it was taking many hours.

Note: I did not open the door at all any time. I also used hot water in the drip on the initial set up. I also adjusted the dampener many times to try and get the heat up.

I know that not allot of people smoke at these temps but. Supper bowl week end was not in the middle of June ether.

I ended up doing a 5 hour smoke and cook on the ribs and i took the brisket off after smoking it a total of 9 hours. I had to wrap and oven bake both for about 3 hours at 300 deg to finish them off. I was unable to get the internal temp up on the brisket. I have done 6 other larger briskets in less time.
 
I can reach 250* at 10* outside temps with my new 1200 watt version.

It's 18* outside and I put a pork butt in my MES about 1/2 hour ago. Temp in the box is currently at 237* and climbing.

Also took out the granite tile I was using as a baffle, and the temps seem to stabilize faster than with it in.

Because of the mass your're trying to smoke, I would bet adding a hotplate or charcoal starter would be beneficial. I think there is a mod for adding a charcoal starter to a MES.

Found It!
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...hlight=element



Todd
 
I think I found a solution to lowering the 1200 watt element to allow for lower temp smoking!!!

Just purchased one of these off EBay.
http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchan...ory_Code=Erobt

It's a 120 volt "Infinite Control Switch" for a stove and/or oven. The wiring diagram shows it mounts from power, directly to the heating element. Most of these switches are 220v, but I found a 120v for a good price.

I'll install it in the next week or so and post my results.

Wish Me Luck!


Todd
 
Good news i just got the new 1200 Watt heating element in the mail from Masterbuilt today. There is some detail installation instructions that came with it. I will be doing the upgrade and i will start a new post on the mod. Look for it soon.
 
Texacajun.... Keep us posted.

I received the Infinite Control Switch in the mail. It works by heating up a bi-metallic strip. The more times it cycles, the hotter the element gets. The fewer cycles the lower the temp.

Not really what I was after, but someone could possibly use for a smoker build.

For $12 it was worth a try.

Anybody want/need it?


Todd
 
hey guys....on the line of tearing into the backs of our MES's...I have a MES 30 inch

Model: 20070106     Serial: GA040923

I am hoping someone has drawn up a wiring diagram of this unit.  Anyone??

Dan
 
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