thanks to all for the welcome. this is a very interesting and freindly site, happy to have found it. I will post some pics soon and a reciepe that I use for my deer ring balongna. last time I added chedder cheese chunks and that was very good. I will be making more soon because I have 6 left now out of 53 rings I made 2 weeks ago. everybody around here loves it. to much I think sometime. take care all !