There Is A Difference Between Low And Slow And Lower And Slower

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So interesting.  The meat and veggies I can get at Winco are SOOO much better than ANY of the grocery chains around me (Safeway, Raley's, Bel Air, Food 4 Less, Smart n Final, Grocery Outlet, and Sprouts), saving me a bundle in the process.  Their veggies come pretty close to our farmer's market for flavor.

Favorite rub?  I've tried a bunch.  Here is my current favorite I'm using on pork and chicken these days.  I found the foundation on the Internet and changed it a little to what I like.  I'd only ever used Old Bay for fish.  Read the ingredients for Old Bay, it is PERFECT for pork and chicken.  You could add up to a Tbs of cayenne pepper if you wanted to kick it up a notch.   

Pork Rub with Old Bay Seasoning  

Ingredients
2 Tbs Dark brown sugar
2 Tbs Paprika, sweet or smoked, your preference
1 Tbs Old Bay seasoning
1 Tbs Kosher salt
1 Tbs chili powder
1 Tbs dry mustard
1/2 Tbs Fresh-ground black pepper
1/4 tsp ground ginger

Directions

1. Mix all ingredients in the order shown.  Stir with a spoon, breaking up any clumps.  Store in an airtight container.
You mentioned Raley's and Food 4 Less so I had to check out where you live. Do the Raiders still train there? When we lived in Santa Rosa, the two stores we shopped were Raley's and Food 4 Less. We miss them both but Winco "borrowed" their business plan from F4L, in my opinion. The meats at Winco look like they were butchered by trainees. Winco's produce can be as good or better than Safeway (and a lot cheaper) or on bad days some areas can be embarrassingly bad. But there are many food and dairy items we only buy at Winco because of the better prices.

We never shopped Safeway in those days but in the county where we live now they consistently have the best quality meats outside of Costco, and I've become buddies with the meat dept. and produce dept. managers. We have a Grocery Outlet and a Cash & Carry but shopping two stores in one day is enough for us. There's also Fred Meyer up here which is owned by Kroger. They have very good meats and produce but we still prefer Safeway.

And do you know what you've just done for me? We bought Old Bay a while ago because I wanted to cook up some shellfish Cajun-style but have yet to do it. Thanks to do, I've got a dry rub recipe where I get to use it. The meat guy at the Safeway in town is able to get me fresh farmed catfish out of South Carolina--unless Irma has mucked around there. I think this rub will taste great on it. When I finally smoke this 12 lb. turkey I've got in the freezer I'll try it then.  Do you use it also on all cuts of pork? Just looking at the recipe I'm not sure about ribs but pork shoulder and pork loin are definitely in play.

Just re-read the recipe. One-half tablespoon of freshly-ground black pepper? That seems like a lot of pepper. But at any rate, we have a manual pepper mill but if it's anything over an 1/8 tsp I have to use store-bought ground black pepper.
 
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I've tried both methods too & can find very little difference in the final product, other than the cooking time.

I had a 9.5 lb. butt in the freezer for about 1 1/2 years & just got it out a few days ago when the hurricane hit. I set it up in my WSM/Guru with the generator running the guru. I started it out at 210 & after 12 hours I set it to 235 to finish it off. It took 22 hours to get done & I never wrapped it, everyone in the neighborhood loved it. I have done that same sized butt in 12 hours at 280 on the Lang with pretty much the same results.

Al
I just read again what you wrote because I missed the reference to a Lang smoker. I believe that one of the daycare dads (my wife runs a home daycare) her in WA state bought a Lang off craigslist or someplace. It's just a little 36" model but I can attest first hand to how good the Q is that comes out of it.
 
 
My MES units do 99% of their work below 230°, but mainly because I like to give the extra time for more light smoke.

The only time I ever went over 250° was the last hour on some Chicken Thighs to crisp up the skin.

So I can't say what over 275° is like, because all of my MES units Max out at 275°.

Bear
Bear, you know how the controllers work on the MES. Even if I set it for 260°-275° to get the controller up past 235° where I want the set point, it'll still cycle up to 250° during the heating cycle. It's always somewhere in the 3rd hour of smoking or so it seems to settle back down to 235-245°, and there are times when it goes below that. I just don't like to smoke at the higher temps. I posted somewhere else that I watched an Aaron Franklin video on beef ribs and the pitmaster in Texas said how he smokes them between 300°-330°. I think I'll give that a try since when I set my MES to 275° it actually goes as least as high as 315° during the heating cycle. That's the reading on my ET-733.
 
Yea. Sorry for the late reply.

I have also been cooking over a all wood fire at high temps.

Haven't tried a butt or brisket at high temps.

I do butts under 300°
If I had the place to store a stick burner I'd love to own one. But I have a MES 30 Gen 1 and officially the top temp is 275° but you can get higher temps out of it. Almost all my smoking recipes call for smoking temps between 225°-250°. I usually park it at around 235° from when I was a big Ray Lampe fan. In the cookbook of his that I bought that was the temp for just about every recipe of his. But if it snakes up to 240-245° I don't mind.
 
Chile, do you think it makes a difference if the higher cooking temps are done in those big pro offset rig or cabinet smokers or a MES 30 like I have? I just watched an Aaron Franklin BBQing episode where a Texas BBQ place smokes its beef ribs between 300°-330° for 8 hours.
Having never cooked on rigs like those, nor having cooked those cuts at those temps... I can't say.
But what I've heard/experienced is that, 'Heat is heat, doesn't matter how you generate it in your smoker, gas, electric, charcoal or wood."
 
 
You mentioned Raley's and Food 4 Less so I had to check out where you live. Do the Raiders still train there? It was the 49'ers out at Sierra Community College. They don't train there anymore.  The Raiders trained up in Napa. 

And do you know what you've just done for me? We bought Old Bay a while ago because I wanted to cook up some shellfish Cajun-style but have yet to do it. Thanks to do, I've got a dry rub recipe where I get to use it. Glad to help!

Just re-read the recipe. One-half tablespoon of freshly-ground black pepper? That seems like a lot of pepper. But at any rate, we have a manual pepper mill but if it's anything over an 1/8 tsp I have to use store-bought ground black pepper.  I grind up peppercorns in a blender.  Works like a charm. And yes, it is 1/2 Tbs. 

Do you use it also on all cuts of pork? Just looking at the recipe I'm not sure about ribs but pork shoulder and pork loin are definitely in play.  I absolutely use it on ribs.  Definitely pork butt and loins too.  Made up a batch this past weekend for two 6 lb racks of spares.  So yummy. I apply it lightly on ribs, heavy on the pork butts.   
 
Pork Rub with Old Bay Seasoning 

Ingredients

2 Tbs Dark brown sugar
2 Tbs Paprika, sweet or smoked, your preference
1 Tbs Old Bay seasoning
1 Tbs Kosher salt
1 Tbs chili powder
1 Tbs dry mustard
1/2 Tbs Fresh-ground black pepper
1/4 tsp ground ginger

Directions
1. Mix all ingredients in the order shown.  Stir with a spoon, breaking up any clumps.  Store in an airtight container.
I have to ask... Do you really make such a small batch of rub?

LOL... The way I sling rub that might do one side of a rack.
I tend to lay it on thick and sloppy, rub off any excess and be messy about it. :biggrin:

My minimum is
1C Brown Sugar
.5C Lawry's Seasoned Salt
1/3C each Paprika, Garlic and Onion powders
To which I might add
1/8C each Black and Cayenne peppers
 
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So interesting.  The meat and veggies I can get at Winco are SOOO much better than ANY of the grocery chains around me (Safeway, Raley's, Bel Air, Food 4 Less, Smart n Final, Grocery Outlet, and Sprouts), saving me a bundle in the process.  Their veggies come pretty close to our farmer's market for flavor.

Favorite rub?  I've tried a bunch.  Here is my current favorite I'm using on pork and chicken these days.  I found the foundation on the Internet and changed it a little to what I like.  I'd only ever used Old Bay for fish.  Read the ingredients for Old Bay, it is PERFECT for pork and chicken.  You could add up to a Tbs of cayenne pepper if you wanted to kick it up a notch.   

Pork Rub with Old Bay Seasoning 

Ingredients

2 Tbs Dark brown sugar

2 Tbs Paprika, sweet or smoked, your preference

1 Tbs Old Bay seasoning

1 Tbs Kosher salt

1 Tbs chili powder

1 Tbs dry mustard

1/2 Tbs Fresh-ground black pepper

1/4 tsp ground ginger

Directions
1. Mix all ingredients in the order shown.  Stir with a spoon, breaking up any clumps.  Store in an airtight container.
This short thread has a great Old Bay simulariy Squib tried further down in the thread. I did the original recipe a few times and leave out MSG and charcoal. Great savory flavor. Hardboiled eggs to meat and everything in between. I've been using this a few years. I turn all ingredients to a ground texture to match the others to put in a small holed shaker like for garlic powder.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/137114/poison-or-how-to-kill-them-all-with-the-grill

-Kurt
 
I have to ask... Do you really make such a small batch of rub?

LOL... The way I sling rub that might do one side of a rack.
I tend to lay it on thick and sloppy, rub off any excess and be messy about it.
biggrin.gif


My minimum is
1C Brown Sugar
.5C Lawry's Seasoned Salt
1/3C each Paprika, Garlic and Onion powders
To which I might add
1/4C each Black and Cayenne peppers
Has more to do with the containers I have on hand and room in the cabinet.  I measure with the palm of my hand so it might be a little different, but I've followed my own recipe and it tastes the same.
 
 
Yes they do.  Might even be higher than 2%.  I've got to run to Winco today.  I'll take a pic of the label.  They always have BBs, so I'll check that label also. 

I don't dry brine my Hormel ribs as a result of the saline solution.  I also go very light on the rub, which is what I prefer anyway. 
I don't brine ribs anyway and I never buy any pork products with that added solution because part of the price per pound I'm paying is for that briny stuff. It just adds to the profit for the meatpacking company and it really isn't needed. That's why I was happy to see a few years that apparently Costco had told Swift Premium to leave it out of the pork meats it shipped to Costco warehouses. I'm still working on how much rub I apply. I want the flavor from the rub but sometimes in the smoker or on the grill the rub isn't fully absorbed into the meat so it creates a drier, grainy texture and taste where it didn't fully dissolve. 
 
Should've trusted my memory because I had thought that was Roseville's claim to fame back in the '80s and 
 
Has more to do with the containers I have on hand and room in the cabinet.  I measure with the palm of my hand so it might be a little different, but I've followed my own recipe and it tastes the same.
Your method of measuring is impressive. I need measuring spoons and cups. With some spices I can eyeball it but I'm a measuring guy and I like to be exact...unless I decided to alter the proportions of some of the ingredients. We keep our pantry stocked with everything I need for my favorite rubs and for the Asian dishes I cook up in my wok, and for the dishes my wife makes. We're both avid home cooks. 
 
Did someone say they felt that pork butt or brisket was hurried in a slow cooker? [emoji]129299[/emoji]
I haven't yet read all the comments but I don't think so. The topic here is based on the ThermoWorks article I linked to. They tested smoking a pork shoulder/butt at 225° and in another smoker at 300° and compared the differences. I think I mentioned that when I use a slow cooker I prefer it on Low. I will set it to High if I get a late start so that it finishes in time for dinner. 
 
This short thread has a great Old Bay simulariy Squib tried further down in the thread. I did the original recipe a few times and leave out MSG and charcoal. Great savory flavor. Hardboiled eggs to meat and everything in between. I've been using this a few years. I turn all ingredients to a ground texture to match the others to put in a small holed shaker like for garlic powder.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/137114/poison-or-how-to-kill-them-all-with-the-grill

-Kurt
This looks great. We have every ingredient in our pantry except for the activated charcoal, which I would also leave out. So now I've got at least three new dry rubs to try out of this thread deal. Score!
 
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I have to ask... Do you really make such a small batch of rub?

LOL... The way I sling rub that might do one side of a rack.
I tend to lay it on thick and sloppy, rub off any excess and be messy about it.
biggrin.gif


My minimum is
1C Brown Sugar
.5C Lawry's Seasoned Salt
1/3C each Paprika, Garlic and Onion powders
To which I might add
1/4C each Black and Cayenne peppers
ONE QUARTER CUP OF BOTH BLACK AND CAYENNE PEPPERS????? My wife would be game enough to try one bite of something made with that rub, declare it way too hot, and then would find something else to eat for dinner. 
 
I'm thinking if doing some stuff this winter on the ECB for a few hours smoke and finish in the slow cooker like the next day while I'm at work. Should be good stuff.. just not the same bark.
 
I should have trusted my memory about the '9ers. I thought that back in the '80s and '90s they were Roseville's main claim to fame. But I looked at a site with a history of the '9ers training camps and Roseville wasn't listed. That's why I then thought it had to have been the Raiders. So thanks for setting me straight on that. 

I grind up peppercorns in a blender.  Works like a charm. Duh, the obvious answer. I have never thought of that, and we have plenty of gadgets to handle that, including my mortar and pestle. So here's another way you've been a help to me! 

How many people do you cook for? 12 pounds of spareribs is a lot of ribs. The b-backs I buy weigh in about 3 lbs. per rack. I just smoked a pork loin a few weeks ago but I've got some pork shoulder in the freezer. There's been a few other recipes given in this thread. I'm kind of planning to BBQ some beef ribs and then a small whole turkey. The pork shoulder will follow after those. The problem with pork shoulder in our house is that I enjoy making smoked pulled pork while my wife slow cooks killer carnitas. Yeah, we could do both at the same time but honestly she makes carnitas more often than I do the smoked pulled pork. 
 
I'm thinking if doing some stuff this winter on the ECB for a few hours smoke and finish in the slow cooker like the next day while I'm at work. Should be good stuff.. just not the same bark.
I actually had to look up what an ECB is. Turns out my mother-in-law had one of those years ago. At that time I was a bit intimidated by smoking and never asked her if I could use it. But isn't it similar to the WSM? When you add wood chunks it should smoke up with some nice bark but then the slow cooker would soften it up. So you're right about "just not the same bark". Did you see Jeff's article on his recommended ECB mods?
 
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