There Is A Difference Between Low And Slow And Lower And Slower

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daricksta

Master of the Pit
Original poster
OTBS Member
Apr 27, 2012
3,244
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Seattle, WA
ThermoWorks sent me a very interesting newsletter which confirmed in print what I've instinctively and logically thought. This also applies to a Crock Pot that has Low and High settings. A number of SMF members prefer to smoke at 275°F but I've chosen not to because, to me, real low and slow cooking is done at temps between 225-250°F. I've always thought that meats when meats full of connective tissuje, like brisket, boneless chuck, and pork shoulder, are hurried in a slow cooker or a smoker, those tissues won't bring down as completely as at lower, slower cooking temps. The ThermoWorks test in this article proves me right. Yes, the bark is browner and the meat is still flavorful. But the pulled pork cooked at 300°F in this article was a little stringier and firmer than the meat on the pork shoulder cooked at 225°F.

So, it becomes a matter of personal preference in the tradeoff. If you want to smoke a pork shoulder or a beef brisket and would like to trim six hours or so off the smoke, cook at a higher temp. If you have the time for you and your roast to kick back and get mellow for 9-12+ hours or so, set the controller temp low. The bark may not be as darkly browned but the flavors and tenderness will be there. Here's a link to that article: 

http://blog.thermoworks.com/2015/10...mpaign=Sep2017-ThermaQ-DOT-Sale-Ends-Today-cs
 
I read that too.
I've messed around with cooking at 275° +/- with the same results.
It's a give and take, and definitely allows one to bang out some satisfactory BBQ in less time.

And then there is the Hot-n-Fast crowd that seem to get a danged good product on the table.
From competition crews and well known restaurants, to the average Joe on his patio.

Just today, I ran some St. Louis ribs through the smoker Low-n-Slow.
225°-240° for 6.5 hours, no crutch, perfect slight tug off the bone tenderness.
If I have the time, I'll take it.
 
I agree. All depends on what I want to achieve. I like a pulled pork with some bite to it. I have also done a brisket for 23 hours.

Ribs are done in 1.5 hours. Perfect bite and tender.

I am in the hot n fast group but it's spinning the meat.

For overnight cooks it's low n slow.

Each method has it's place.
 
I read that too.
I've messed around with cooking at 275° +/- with the same results.
It's a give and take, and definitely allows one to bang out some satisfactory BBQ in less time.

And then there is the Hot-n-Fast crowd that seem to get a danged good product on the table.
From competition crews and well known restaurants, to the average Joe on his patio.

Just today, I ran some St. Louis ribs through the smoker Low-n-Slow.
225°-240° for 6.5 hours, no crutch, perfect slight tug off the bone tenderness.
If I have the time, I'll take it.
I'm smoking both ribs and brisket naked. But I might rethink the brisket. I just began watching the old Aaron Franklin BBQ series on PBS. He once did a test and determined that butcher paper-wrapped briskets came out slightly better than naked. I bought a big roll of it last year but have only used it once or twice. 

I'm still sticking with the temp range for all my hot smoking we've both agreed is best.
 
I agree. All depends on what I want to achieve. I like a pulled pork with some bite to it. I have also done a brisket for 23 hours.

Ribs are done in 1.5 hours. Perfect bite and tender.

I am in the hot n fast group but it's spinning the meat.

For overnight cooks it's low n slow.

Each method has it's place.
What do you mean by "spinning the meat"? I haven't heard that term before. 23 hours? I hope you slept at least 8 hours thru it. When I smoked a whole packer earlier this summer, I had it in the smoker overnight, 21 hours or so, I think. I'd have to look up my post about it. That's the longest I've ever smoked a brisket and the IT was just where I wanted it. When I sliced it there was still some pink to the meat with just the amount of bark I wanted, which surprised me. Franklin's briskets come out brown with a lot of black bark. 
 
I've tried both methods too & can find very little difference in the final product, other than the cooking time.

I had a 9.5 lb. butt in the freezer for about 1 1/2 years & just got it out a few days ago when the hurricane hit. I set it up in my WSM/Guru with the generator running the guru. I started it out at 210 & after 12 hours I set it to 235 to finish it off. It took 22 hours to get done & I never wrapped it, everyone in the neighborhood loved it. I have done that same sized butt in 12 hours at 280 on the Lang with pretty much the same results.

Al
 
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I've tried both methods too & can find very little difference in the final product, other than the cooking time.

I had a 9.5 lb. butt in the freezer for about 1 1/2 years & just got it out a few days ago when the hurricane hit. I set it up in my WSM/Guru with the generator running the guru. I started it out at 210 & after 12 hours I set it to 235 to finish it off. It took 22 hours to get done & I never wrapped it, everyone in the neighborhood loved it. I have done that same sized butt in 12 hours at 280 on the Lang with pretty much the same results.

Al
Al, you smoke in a WSM? I have a MES 30 Gen 1 and I wonder if using electric heat and wood pellets would bring about a different result, unless heat is heat no matter what the source? I think I've only smoked a pork shoulder once and it would have been between 235-250°. There's a pork shoulder in my freezer around 8 lbs. that's waiting for me to decide what to do with it. 

Man, you made it through Irma? I hope you lived in an area that didn't flood too badly and your home didn't suffer much if any damage. And you fed the neighborhood, what a guy! I gave you points for that. How much sleep do you give yourself over those long smokes?
 
Until I started smoking meat, I did pulled pork and briskets in the oven at 350F, uncovered for half the roast, then adding onions and garlic to the pulled pork, veggies to the brisket, and wrapping until tender and juicy.  Never was a fan of slow cookers.  Pretty much only used them then, and now, for reheating meat. 

Once I started smoking meat, I started low n slow, graduated to hot n fast, and now I'm a low n slow start with a hot n fast finish after the stall.  I do that with both pulled pork and brisket.  Never noticed much of a difference in the final result.  I like pulled pork with a little bite, but not stringy.  Hate it when it's mushy and overcooked.  Brisket I like tender and juicy.  That's never a problem with the point.  With the flat, I like it  just on the slicing side of being too tender to slice. If I smoke it a little too long and it crumbles, it still tastes great.      

I've gone back to low n slow only for spare ribs.  I find that by giving myself more time before dinner, it makes for a more relaxing all-day smoke. My wife and daughters ordered FOTB ribs this past Saturday.  8.5 hours until probe tender for two 6 lb+ rib racks at 240F chamber temp, no spraying or wrapping, just saucing as they requested, and they were perfect for them.  I always eat last, old habit. I got three of the small end bones on Saturday, two on Sunday.  They devoured the rest of the ribs, including the untrimmed big meaty end.  My wife was celebrating her birthday 3 weeks late with our daughters, so even though I did the cooking/smoking/etc, I still ended up doing the dishes.   

Whatever works for the smoker and you is best.  Learning that is a lot of the fun.

Ray        
 
My MES units do 99% of their work below 230°, but mainly because I like to give the extra time for more light smoke.

The only time I ever went over 250° was the last hour on some Chicken Thighs to crisp up the skin.

So I can't say what over 275° is like, because all of my MES units Max out at 275°.

Bear
 
 
Until I started smoking meat, I did pulled pork and briskets in the oven at 350F, uncovered for half the roast, then adding onions and garlic to the pulled pork, veggies to the brisket, and wrapping until tender and juicy.  Never was a fan of slow cookers.  Pretty much only used them then, and now, for reheating meat. 

Once I started smoking meat, I started low n slow, graduated to hot n fast, and now I'm a low n slow start with a hot n fast finish after the stall.  I do that with both pulled pork and brisket.  Never noticed much of a difference in the final result.  I like pulled pork with a little bite, but not stringy.  Hate it when it's mushy and overcooked.  Brisket I like tender and juicy.  That's never a problem with the point.  With the flat, I like it  just on the slicing side of being too tender to slice. If I smoke it a little too long and it crumbles, it still tastes great.      

I've gone back to low n slow only for spare ribs.  I find that by giving myself more time before dinner, it makes for a more relaxing all-day smoke. My wife and daughters ordered FOTB ribs this past Saturday.  8.5 hours until probe tender for two 6 lb+ rib racks at 240F chamber temp, no spraying or wrapping, just saucing as they requested, and they were perfect for them.  I always eat last, old habit. I got three of the small end bones on Saturday, two on Sunday.  They devoured the rest of the ribs, including the untrimmed big meaty end.  My wife was celebrating her birthday 3 weeks late with our daughters, so even though I did the cooking/smoking/etc, I still ended up doing the dishes.   

Whatever works for the smoker and you is best.  Learning that is a lot of the fun.

Ray        
I think there's a difference in slow cooking meat in a Dutch oven or in a slow cooker and cooking it in a smoker. I like to try some experiment with just about every smoke. Out of necessity, when it's gotten too close to dinner time and the ribs or brisket weren't done I've boosted the smoker temp to get the meat to finish quicker.  Now I plan my smokes so that whatever time it takes for briskets to get past the stall that's how long it takes, and however much time it takes to reach 203° or so IT, that's how long it takes. Still exploring cooking wrapped/unwrapped with ribs and briskets. The last racks of baby backs I cooked unwrapped turned out great. I also tried mopping them as part of the experiment. 

Speaking of a brisket point, I smoked my first whole packer a few weeks ago and I think I nailed the burnt ends, although there are a few different recipes for making them. I combined parts of a couple of recipes and it worked. I've still got about half the flat yet. Even though the brisket cooked to that 203° IT I talked about and was super tender, the meat still had some pink to it, which surprised me. I cooked it unwrapped for about 21 hours at 235-250°. I'm making Philly Cheesesteak Paninis this week out of it, again...as an experiment. 

So, you cook up spare ribs? I've thought about buying those since I grew up on the way my dad made them. I just prefer the meatier baby backs to spare or St. Louis style. If I don't mop the ribs I spread on the sauce in the last 20 minutes or so and then when they're resting on the cutting board. My family doesn't like a lot of bark and they like some sauce but not a lot. 

When I cook FOTB ribs I tell my wife and our kids (if they're home and eating with us) that I overcooked them but they like it that way anyway. There was some tug to those last b-backs and that's how I like it. And yeah, whether or not I cook or the wife does and whether it's her birthday or mine, I generally do the dishes and all the cleanup. 

And you are right: learning is a lot of fun and the acquired knowledge and skills make smoking more fun. I am now levels beyond where I was when I first started smoking 5 years ago. 

Rick 
 
 
So, you cook up spare ribs? I've thought about buying those since I grew up on the way my dad made them. I just prefer the meatier baby backs to spare or St. Louis style. If I don't mop the ribs I spread on the sauce in the last 20 minutes or so and then when they're resting on the cutting board. My family doesn't like a lot of bark and they like some sauce but not a lot. 

When I cook FOTB ribs I tell my wife and our kids (if they're home and eating with us) that I overcooked them but they like it that way anyway. There was some tug to those last b-backs and that's how I like it. And yeah, whether or not I cook or the wife does and whether it's her birthday or mine, I generally do the dishes and all the cleanup. 

And you are right: learning is a lot of fun and the acquired knowledge and skills make smoking more fun. I am now levels beyond where I was when I first started smoking 5 years ago. 

Rick 
Locally, I've found that the untrimmed, Hormel brand of spare ribs are VERY meaty.  6 lbs is the smallest rack I'll buy.  I saw a rack of untrimmed Hormel spares this past Saturday morning that was over 9 lbs and 3" thick!  If there had been two in the bin I would have got them both, but the one they had was $2.28/lb. 

BBs around here rarely drop to less than $2.99/lb.  In most stores in my area they are $3.99 to $5.99/lb.  I can buy untrimmed spares from 99 cents/lb to $1.88/lb pretty much year round.  The two racks I picked up this past Saturday were $1.78/lb.  Total weight was 12.52 lbs.  The fat renders nicely.  The bones don't weight that much, and the racks are meaty.  Given the difference in price, I just can't justify buying the BBs.   
 
 
Locally, I've found that the untrimmed, Hormel brand of spare ribs are VERY meaty.  6 lbs is the smallest rack I'll buy.  I saw a rack of untrimmed Hormel spares this past Saturday morning that was over 9 lbs and 3" thick!  If there had been two in the bin I would have got them both, but the one they had was $2.28/lb. 

BBs around here rarely drop to less than $2.99/lb.  In most stores in my area they are $3.99 to $5.99/lb.  I can buy untrimmed spares from 99 cents/lb to $1.88/lb pretty much year round.  The two racks I picked up this past Saturday were $1.78/lb.  Total weight was 12.52 lbs.  The fat renders nicely.  The bones don't weight that much, and the racks are meaty.  Given the difference in price, I just can't justify buying the BBs.   
Does Hormel add a 2% saline solution to its ribs? We see a lot of Swift Premium here (Costco sells that brand and it no longer contains solution plus the membranes on the ribs have already been removed) for b-backs and St. Louis. They sell for $3-4 a pound. My favorite supermarket to buy meat is Safeway. They have their own brands that also sell for $3-4. For b-backs, I tried their Open Nature brand made from Duroc heritage pigs but it was a premium price. I thought I could tell the difference between that and the regular b-back I bought and smoked along with the Open Nature. What I don't like about St. Louis, and by extension regular spareribs, are the little cartidge-filled bones on the ends since I just have to remove them from my mouth when chawin' down on a rib. B-backs don't have that bony section and I think they're meatier and more tender than SLC or spareribs. But if I could find a store that has the meaty spareribs you've described on sale I'd buy a package. I never pay more than $3.99 a pound for regular b-backs (although I might try that Open Nature brand again) and when I see them for $2.99 I'm a happy guy. Those are prices around here. 
 
 
Does Hormel add a 2% saline solution to its ribs? We see a lot of Swift Premium here (Costco sells that brand and it no longer contains solution plus the membranes on the ribs have already been removed) for b-backs and St. Louis. They sell for $3-4 a pound. My favorite supermarket to buy meat is Safeway. They have their own brands that also sell for $3-4. For b-backs, I tried their Open Nature brand made from Duroc heritage pigs but it was a premium price. I thought I could tell the difference between that and the regular b-back I bought and smoked along with the Open Nature. What I don't like about St. Louis, and by extension regular spareribs, are the little cartidge-filled bones on the ends since I just have to remove them from my mouth when chawin' down on a rib. B-backs don't have that bony section and I think they're meatier and more tender than SLC or spareribs. But if I could find a store that has the meaty spareribs you've described on sale I'd buy a package. I never pay more than $3.99 a pound for regular b-backs (although I might try that Open Nature brand again) and when I see them for $2.99 I'm a happy guy. Those are prices around here. 
Yes they do.  Might even be higher than 2%.  I've got to run to Winco today.  I'll take a pic of the label.  They always have BBs, so I'll check that label also. 

I don't dry brine my Hormel ribs as a result of the saline solution.  I also go very light on the rub, which is what I prefer anyway. 
 
 
Yes they do.  Might even be higher than 2%.  I've got to run to Winco today.  I'll take a pic of the label.  They always have BBs, so I'll check that label also. 

I don't dry brine my Hormel ribs as a result of the saline solution.  I also go very light on the rub, which is what I prefer anyway. 
I never brine ribs. The only meats I intend to brine at some point are salmon and also a brisket flat I plan to make pastrami from, but I haven't planned when I plan to do either.  Winco is the 2nd store where we do our weekly shopping (the first is Safeway). I don't buy meats at Winco but they often have really good produce cheaper than the chain supermarkets. There are other things we only buy there. 

Do you have a favorite dry rub? I've been using Steven Raichlen's Kansas City Sweet & Smoky as my go-to but I want to try another profile. I've made similar dry rubs and a couple much different. Still hunting for the flavor profile that I'll want to stick with. I haven't tried concocting my own because I'm not very good at that. 
 
 
I never brine ribs. The only meats I intend to brine at some point are salmon and also a brisket flat I plan to make pastrami from, but I haven't planned when I plan to do either.  Winco is the 2nd store where we do our weekly shopping (the first is Safeway). I don't buy meats at Winco but they often have really good produce cheaper than the chain supermarkets. There are other things we only buy there. 

Do you have a favorite dry rub? I've been using Steven Raichlen's Kansas City Sweet & Smoky as my go-to but I want to try another profile. I've made similar dry rubs and a couple much different. Still hunting for the flavor profile that I'll want to stick with. I haven't tried concocting my own because I'm not very good at that. 
So interesting.  The meat and veggies I can get at Winco are SOOO much better than ANY of the grocery chains around me (Safeway, Raley's, Bel Air, Food 4 Less, Smart n Final, Grocery Outlet, and Sprouts), saving me a bundle in the process.  Their veggies come pretty close to our farmer's market for flavor.

Favorite rub?  I've tried a bunch.  Here is my current favorite I'm using on pork and chicken these days.  I found the foundation on the Internet and changed it a little to what I like.  I'd only ever used Old Bay for fish.  Read the ingredients for Old Bay, it is PERFECT for pork and chicken.  You could add up to a Tbs of cayenne pepper if you wanted to kick it up a notch.   

Pork Rub with Old Bay Seasoning  

Ingredients
2 Tbs Dark brown sugar
2 Tbs Paprika, sweet or smoked, your preference
1 Tbs Old Bay seasoning
1 Tbs Kosher salt
1 Tbs chili powder
1 Tbs dry mustard
1/2 Tbs Fresh-ground black pepper
1/4 tsp ground ginger

Directions

1. Mix all ingredients in the order shown.  Stir with a spoon, breaking up any clumps.  Store in an airtight container.
 
I read that too.
I've messed around with cooking at 275° +/- with the same results.
It's a give and take, and definitely allows one to bang out some satisfactory BBQ in less time.

And then there is the Hot-n-Fast crowd that seem to get a danged good product on the table.
From competition crews and well known restaurants, to the average Joe on his patio.

Just today, I ran some St. Louis ribs through the smoker Low-n-Slow.
225°-240° for 6.5 hours, no crutch, perfect slight tug off the bone tenderness.
If I have the time, I'll take it.
Chile, do you think it makes a difference if the higher cooking temps are done in those big pro offset rig or cabinet smokers or a MES 30 like I have? I just watched an Aaron Franklin BBQing episode where a Texas BBQ place smokes its beef ribs between 300°-330° for 8 hours. I can get over 300° in my MES 30 just by setting the controller to 275° but I've chosen to smoke at lower temps as a matter of preference.

And hey--I just smoked two racks of b-backs in the same temp range--no crutch-- for about 4.5 hours and got the same results! I agree with you; if you have the time, why not?
 
Thanks! Now I know a new (to me anyway) term. 

Yea. Sorry for the late reply.

I have also been cooking over a all wood fire at high temps.

Haven't tried a butt or brisket at high temps.

I do butts under 300°
 
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