What is going on with my AMNPS?

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jasonvr

Fire Starter
Original poster
Feb 4, 2017
45
21
Orange, CA
I've now used my AMNPS twice in my 1st Gen MES 30 and both times it has burned exceedingly fast and jumped rows.  Within about 3 hours well over half is burned and there is smoke billowing out of my top vent

In both cases my temp was set at about 230-240.  The second time it definitely spiked higher into the 260's.  The first smoke was preloaded with pellets from Amazen pellets.  The second was a mix of Amazen and Traeger.  In both cases the pellets were dried in the microwave.  Both times it was lit with a small butane torch like you'd use for Creme Brulee.

The first time I thought it was because I had pulled the loader tube out too far and gave it too much oxygen.  But the second time it was almost completely in and I had the same results.  The chip tray was pulled out less than an inch in both cases.  Water pan was installed in both cases.  I believe it had water in it the first time but was dry the second time.  The second time I did add two foil wrapped fire bricks to the shelf just above the water pan.

Top vent was wide open in both cases. No mods made to the MES (smoke stack, mailbox, etc).

Pics from the first attempt:



As you can see, the burn started in the upper right of the pics and rounded the first corner and burned thru that entire row and it looks like the heat ignited the middle of the next row based on the burn pattern.  And you can also see it is still very hot (glowing red still) at the bottom for most of the first row and almost the entire second row.

Second attempt:




Here you can see that after it rounded the first corner it seems to have jumped to the third row and the 2nd and 3rd row ended up burning in parallel.  Again, this is only 3 hours'ish in so that is no way it should have burned this much.  It probably should not have even gotten thru the first row (or maybe just barely finished it)

And just for a bit of fun, when I pulled the AMNPS to let it burn itself out, I put it on my patio stairs and it must have caught a breeze and completely ignited

So what exactly am I doing wrong?  I really want to get to a carefree smoke with the AMNPS, but I'm just not there....
 
 
Where are you locating it in your smoker?

Al
Dang, tried to put all the details in

Since it is a Gen1 MES30, I'm putting it on the rails next to the chip drawer.  And if it makes a difference, I put the ignited end in first so it is by the back wall
 
The Gen 1 chip housing has holes at the end and bottom of the end that may stoke the lit end of the Amnps close to the chip housing. Moving it so its 1/2" from the left wall may help or having the lit end on the left wall.
-Kurt
 
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OK, trying this again tonight with a 9lb brisket flat

Below I've got pictures of my fill level (mix of apple and hickory), igniting, and what it looks like when I give it a bit of a blow.  I flipped how I put it into the MES so the ignited portion is closest to the door and the left edge of the smoker (instead of 180 degrees from that).

Pellets were once again dried in the microwave, 2x 30 second cycles.  Lit with the same torch

Chip tray is out about 1/4" and the loader tube is just a bit out. 





 
Looks like it is too full.  Need to keep it 1/4" below the top.
 
 
Looks like it is too full.  Need to keep it 1/4" below the top.
I think I've got 1/4" below the top, but the pictures may not show it well. It's definitely not filled to the brim and there is a decent amount of the row dividers showing. 

So far I'm about 3 hours in and it seems to be burning like ti is supposed to.  I'll be able to keep checking for about the next 2 hours before I go to bed.
 
I never had much luck with my AMNPS in my MES30 GEN 1 until I added the mailbox mod and put some legs under the tray. Now it works perfectly.

Gary
Did you make the legs longer than the ones that come on it, or do you have an earlier version without legs?

Mine looks like the one in the promo photo (but I've only had it about a month):

 
Where are you placing the AMNPS in the smoker ? It kinda looks like it is too close to heating element and the element is igniting the extra rows. If you run the AMNPS without turning the smoker on (cold smoke ) and it burns just fine, you know it is a location issue.
 
Just got here:

Things I'm thinking:

A little too full---I like about 3/8" from top.

Why are you Nuking your Pellets--People do that when they're having problems keeping them lit---You obviously don't have that problem.

Why are you Pulling your chip loader & Chip drawer out at all----(Same reason as above).

If it keeps doing that, try putting a thin piece of metal between the right end of your AMNPS and the left end of your chip burner.

Also keep your Drawer closed & the dumper all the way in, unless the pellets stop burning.

Bear
 
Back to the OPs problem ... the photos posted a week ago are unlike anything I've ever seen with the AMNPS, either with my own usage, or with photos posted in this forum. I've never seen chips flame and glow like that. You mentioned that you were mixing Trager and Amazen pellets. My suspicion is that the Trager pellets, which are designed to provide heat as well as smoke, are at the root of the problem. I would stick with 100% Amazen pellets.
 
Hey there guys, OP here.  Looks like lots of comments since I last posted.  I'll try to address.  I always preheat before putting the AMPS in, but given the not-so great stability of temperature of the MES, it can have some spikes anyways.  I have considered a mailbox mod, but I'm just not there yet. Also considering a PID controller.

AMNPS is being put where it was designed to go in the Gen1 (as far as I know), rails to the left of the chip tray at the bottom

Chip tray was out a bit and tube out a bit because that was the advice I've read on this forum, directly from the inventor I believe.  Nuking the pellet is the same, heard it here and seemed to be a good idea.

As far as pellet types, the first set of photos were actually from the pre-filled Amazen Pitmasters Choice.  The second set was a mix with Traeger and Amazen.

Now for the update.  Smoked a 9lb brisket flat last night.  Pellets still nuked, 50/50 blend again.  Lit in the same way.  Only significant change was placing the lit end by the wall instead of the tray and I pushed the loader tube even further in.  After 5 hours it was still smoking, but seemed a bit heavy so I pushed the loader tube almost all the way in (less than a centimeter out I think).  When I finally pulled the brisket this morning, this is what the Amazen looked like


So, now I'm to the standard problem of it going out, but I'm guessing I can link the stoppage to about the time I pushed the loader tube in.  So if I had kept it where it was, it probably would have burned the entire way thru.

I also noticed that there was a lot of grease/juice that appears the have poured onto the first row (had to wash out the AMNPS as a result).  So that may have contributed to the outage as well.  The AMNPS wasn't tented or covered in any way, so I probably need to do that in the future.

So I think I'm getting closer and just need to make sure I get a consistent, but not too heavy airflow, and make sure to put the lit portion by the left wall
 
 
Hey there guys, OP here.  Looks like lots of comments since I last posted.  I'll try to address.  I always preheat before putting the AMPS in, but given the not-so great stability of temperature of the MES, it can have some spikes anyways.  I have considered a mailbox mod, but I'm just not there yet. Also considering a PID controller.

AMNPS is being put where it was designed to go in the Gen1 (as far as I know), rails to the left of the chip tray at the bottom

Chip tray was out a bit and tube out a bit because that was the advice I've read on this forum, directly from the inventor I believe.  Nuking the pellet is the same, heard it here and seemed to be a good idea.

As far as pellet types, the first set of photos were actually from the pre-filled Amazen Pitmasters Choice.  The second set was a mix with Traeger and Amazen.

Now for the update.  Smoked a 9lb brisket flat last night.  Pellets still nuked, 50/50 blend again.  Lit in the same way.  Only significant change was placing the lit end by the wall instead of the tray and I pushed the loader tube even further in.  After 5 hours it was still smoking, but seemed a bit heavy so I pushed the loader tube almost all the way in (less than a centimeter out I think).  When I finally pulled the brisket this morning, this is what the Amazen looked like

So, now I'm to the standard problem of it going out, but I'm guessing I can link the stoppage to about the time I pushed the loader tube in.  So if I had kept it where it was, it probably would have burned the entire way thru.

I also noticed that there was a lot of grease/juice that appears the have poured onto the first row (had to wash out the AMNPS as a result).  So that may have contributed to the outage as well.  The AMNPS wasn't tented or covered in any way, so I probably need to do that in the future.

So I think I'm getting closer and just need to make sure I get a consistent, but not too heavy airflow, and make sure to put the lit portion by the left wall
Great---That's pretty much like I said above.

The things you were originally doing were for those who have trouble keeping their AMNPS lit, which is usually the only problem.

It isn't often that the problem is burning too good---That used to be the problem with the AMNS with Dust instead of pellets.

So I would say keep your chip drawer all the way in, and pull your dumper out an inch or so to start, but if it gets to burning real good push the dumper in. Then if it gets too light, pull it out a little again.

Use that dumper to your advantage by using it "Out for more Air" and "In for less Air".

And yes that is the right place to put it in a Gen #1 MES.

And I have found the easiest way to protect the AMNPS from Drips is to take a 9" X 11" Foil pan & cut it in half the long way. Then take one half & turn it upside down & put it above the AMNPS, with the cut end on top of the Empty water pan, and the other end resting on the brackets on the wall: (See Pic below)

Save the other half of the pan for when the first half gets too crummy.

Bear

http://s836.photobucket.com/user/Bearcarver_2009/media/DSCN1302.jpg.html
 
Your latest test, where the AMNPS went out makes it look like air flow is at the root of the problem. This reminds me of the solution I came up with. (This was prior to building my own version of the "mailbox mod," something which completely and totally fixed the problem of too-fast or too-slow burns). Here's the short version of the story.

I read a lot about people pulling the chip loader out a little, or enlarging the chip loader air holes. The former "solution" seemed to be too inconsistent, as you just found (how do you get the chip loader tube pulled out to the exact same position each time?). The latter solution irrevocably alters the function of the smoker and it may, or may not, ever function the same again. What if you make the holes too large?

Many months ago I posted in some other threads my simple mod to take avoid both problems I replaced the chip loader with a duct elbow that has a tin can attached to it. In the end of the tin can, I drilled five holes that are larger in diameter than the three holes in the chip loader. This provides several times the amount of air that can make its way through the chip loader holes. I've shown this pic before, but here it is again. The crinkled end goes into the chip loader hole. If I make the holes too large, I simply get another tin can and try again. This can, as shown, worked pretty well.

 
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