Sous vide pork shoulder

aschmiesing · Feb 2, 2017

I know this is a "smoking" forum, but has anyone ever done whole shoulders sous vide style? Don't get me wrong, I love smoking my shoulders, but thought I would try it with my sous vide cooker. I would like to put 3 or 4 in a big cooler and put 2 of my precision cookers on it and cook them that way, then throw them on my smoker before hand or after hand. Looking for some methods this way. I usually take my shoulders to 205-210, Thanks for the help.

pc farmer · Feb 2, 2017

I moved this to the S.V section for ya.

SmokinAl · Feb 2, 2017

Haven't tried that yet, but am interested in the results you get.

Al

smokin monkey · Feb 2, 2017

I have done plenty of Pork Loin, but never Pork Shoulder. Is it bone in?
I cook Pork Loin to 68'C (154'F)
Are you cooking it to pull or slice?

sqwib · Feb 2, 2017

If you do a whole shoulder, I would give it a dunk in boiling water for a minute or two before sealing and sous vide.

I would also consider de-boning, trimming and slicing instead of a whole roast

Note the gas buildup.Think there may have been bacteria, lactobacillus?

20140627009.JPG

sqwib
Feb 2, 2017

This smelt so bad that it was tossed.

daveomak · Feb 2, 2017

Sous-Vide is made for cooking thinner cuts of meat... The 40-140 rules still applies... Bacteria still grows when using sous-vide...

Thanks to Douglas Baldwin for his http://www.douglasbaldwin.com/sous-vide.html "A practical Guide to Sous-Vide"

Below is an excerpt......

So why were you taught that food pathogens stop multiplying at 40°F (4.4°C) and grow all the way up to 140°F (60°C)? Because it takes days for food pathogens to grow to a dangerous level at 40°F (4.4°C) (FDA, 2011) and it takes many hours for food to be made safe at just above 126.1°F (52.3°C) – compared with only about 12 minutes (for meat) and 35 minutes (for poultry) to be made safe when the coldest part is 140°F (60°C) (FSIS, 2005; FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2). Indeed, the food pathogens that can multiply down to 29.7°F (-1.3°C) – Yersinia enterocolitica and Listeria monocytogenes – can only multiply about once per day at 40°F (4.4°C) and so you can hold food below 40°F (4.4°C) for five to seven days (FDA, 2011). At 126.1°F (52.3°C), when the common food pathogen Clostridium perfringens stops multiplying, it takes a very long time to reduce the food pathogens we’re worried about – namely the Salmonella species, Listeria monocytogenes, and the pathogenic strains of Escherichia coli – to a safe level; in a 130°F (54.4°C) water bath (the lowest temperature I recommend for cooking sous vide) it’ll take you about 2½ hours to reduce E. coli to a safe level in a 1 inch (25 mm) thick hamburger patty and holding a hamburger patty at 130°F (54.4°C) for 2½ hours is inconceivable with traditional cooking methods – which is why the “danger zone” conceived for traditional cooking methods doesn’t start at 130°F (54.4°C). [Note that Johnson et al. (1983) reported that Bacillus cereus could multiply at 131°F/55°C, but no one else has demonstrated growth at this temperature and so Clostridium perfringens is used instead.]

aschmiesing · Feb 2, 2017

Guess I will do them in the smoker lol. Thanks for the help guys.

gnatboy911 · Feb 2, 2017

There are several recipes on the Anova Sous Vide website that use full shoulders and butts. Sous vide for 24 to 48 hrs, finished under a broiler or on a grill. Not sure if I'm allowed to post the link. It says 165 for 18 hrs for a 5 to 7 lb whole shoulder.

dls1 · Feb 2, 2017

I've cooked a lot of shoulders/butts SV, primarily for (non) traditional pulled pork, carnitas, and cochinita pibil. However, I've never cooked a shoulder whole, and I wouldn't even consider doing so. With the bone out, I cut the meat in 2"-3" slabs, season them as needed depending on my desired outcome, and go from there. I normally cook at 160F for 24 to 36 hours, depending upon the finished texture desired.

I always smoke the meat after the cook for about 1 hour at 150F. Sometimes I'll shred the meat beforehand and put it on a sheet pan in the smoker. Other times, I'll smoke the slabs, then shred.

To finish, the shredded met goes under the broiler on a sheet pan for a very few minutes. If needed, I add some of the accumulated juices from the cook that I've reserved.

sqwib · Feb 2, 2017

DaveOmak said:
Sous-Vide is made for cooking thinner cuts of meat... The 40-140 rules still applies.

I agree that thickness is a consideration but the 40-140 rule as we know it on SMF, doesn't hold true in Sous Vide, there are other factors involved, thickness being one and pasteurization (Time) being another.

Pasteurization Temp: If cooking temperature is ABOVE131F you should be good, just as long as you take into account the thickness.

Thickness is a factor, that is why I will do thicker cuts at higher temps then dial it back after several hours.

Screenshot 2017-02-02 13.08.51.png

sqwib
Feb 2, 2017

aschmiesing said:
Guess I will do them in the smoker lol. Thanks for the help guys.

Dave you Dun scared another away!

daveomak · Feb 2, 2017

SQWIB said:
DaveOmak said:

Sous-Vide is made for cooking thinner cuts of meat... The 40-140 rules still applies.

Click to expand...

I agree that thickness is a consideration but the 40-140 rule as we know it on SMF, doesn't hold true in Sous Vide, there are other factors involved, thickness being one and pasteurization (Time) being another.

Did you read Baldwin's explanation of the 40-140 rule that I posted ?? The rules does apply and he explains why..

Pasteurization Temp: If cooking temperature is ABOVE131F you should be good, just as long as you take into account the thickness.

Thickness is a factor, that is why I will do thicker cuts at higher temps then dial it back after several hours.

Screenshot 2017-02-02 13.08.51.png

sqwib

Feb 2, 2017

aschmiesing said:

Guess I will do them in the smoker lol. Thanks for the help guys.

Click to expand...

Dave you Dun scared another away! Scared him away ?? I posted some very good information that he could learn from... Sous-vide an entire butt or 4 was not safe...

sqwib · Feb 2, 2017

DaveOmak said:

Yes I read that, and it backs up what I said and not the 40-140 rule

Here's more from Mr. Baldwin

You were probably taught that there’s a “danger zone” between 40°F and 140°F (4.4°C and 60°C). These temperatures aren’t quite right: it’s well known that food pathogens can only multiply between 29.7°F (-1.3°C) and 126.1°F (52.3°C), while spoilage bacteria begin multiplying at 23°F (-5°C) (Snyder, 2006; Juneja et al., 1999; FDA, 2011). Moreover, contrary to popular belief, food pathogens and toxins cannot be seen, smelt, or tasted.

And what you posted states the reason why the 40-140 does not apply.

So why were you taught that food pathogens stop multiplying at 40°F (4.4°C) and grow all the way up to 140°F (60°C)? Because it takes days for food pathogens to grow to a dangerous level at 40°F (4.4°C) (FDA, 2011) and it takes many hours for food to be made safe at just above 126.1°F (52.3°C) – compared with only about 12 minutes (for meat) and 35 minutes (for poultry) to be made safe when the coldest part is 140°F (60°C) (FSIS, 2005; FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2). Indeed, the food pathogens that can multiply down to 29.7°F (-1.3°C) – Yersinia enterocolitica and Listeria monocytogenes – can only multiply about once per day at 40°F (4.4°C) and so you can hold food below 40°F (4.4°C) for five to seven days (FDA, 2011). At 126.1°F (52.3°C), when the common food pathogen Clostridium perfringens stops multiplying, it takes a very long time to reduce the food pathogens we’re worried about – namely the Salmonella species, Listeria monocytogenes, and the pathogenic strains of Escherichia coli – to a safe level; in a 130°F (54.4°C) water bath (the lowest temperature I recommend for cooking sous vide) it’ll take you about 2½ hours to reduce E. coli to a safe level in a 1 inch (25 mm) thick hamburger patty and holding a hamburger patty at 130°F (54.4°C) for 2½ hours is inconceivable with traditional cooking methods – which is why the “danger zone” conceived for traditional cooking methods doesn’t start at 130°F (54.4°C). [Note that Johnson et al. (1983) reported that Bacillus cereus could multiply at 131°F/55°C, but no one else has demonstrated growth at this temperature and so Clostridium perfringens is used instead.]

We can divide sous vide prepared foods into three categories: (i) raw or unpasteurized, (ii) pasteurized, and (iii) sterilized. Most people cook food to make it more palatable and to kill most the pathogenic microorganisms on or in it. Killing enough active, multiplying food pathogens to make your food safe is called pasteurization. Some bacteria are also able to form spores that are very resistant to heat and chemicals; heat the food to kill both the active microorganisms and the spores is called sterilization. [Sterilization is typically achieved by using a pressure cooker to heat the center of the food to 250°F (121°C) for 2.4 minutes (Snyder, 2006). To sterilize food sous vide, you’ll need special retort plastic bags that can be used in a pressure cooker or an autoclave.]

Foods you’ve pasteurized must either be eaten immediately or rapidly chilled and refrigerated to prevent the outgrowth and multiplication of spores. Moreover, the center of the food should reach 130°F (54.4°C) within 6 hours to prevent the toxin producing pathogen Clostridium perfringens from multiplying to dangerous levels (Willardsen et al., 1977).

Not trying to argue but I can't see where you are getting that the 40-140 applies to Sous Vide.

crankybuzzard · Feb 2, 2017

SQWIB said:
If you do a whole shoulder, I would give it a dunk in boiling water for a minute or two before sealing and sous vide.

I would also consider de-boning, trimming and slicing instead of a whole roast

Note the gas buildup.Think there may have been bacteria, lactobacillus?

20140627009.JPG

sqwib

Feb 2, 2017

This smelt so bad that it was tossed.

We had a freezer at deer camp that went out one year, when we opened it we found several cryovac items like this! Puke city for sure!

Sous vide pork shoulder

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