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Safe to cold smoke poultry,pork,beef? - Page 2

post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Page View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Page View Post
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Page View Post
 

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I removed this at your request and certainly failed to point out that this was only for most food that was previously cooked to safe temp.  I did say this was my guideline. 

It is based on:

http://www.hi-tm.com/PDG/Retail-VI.html#max hold

 

The FDA must write it's guideline to cover the most simple minded persons. Folks on this forum are not in that category 

 and I will not comply with censorship in the future unless I am asked to do so by a moderator.

 

Thank you Russell for removing that chart....  

post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveOmak View Post
 

Thank you Chef JimmyJ....   You have provided exactly the information necessary to prove the FDA Food Code Rules are well intentioned....  

 

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The FDA can provide no validation that the 6-hour cooling is necessary, or any scientific study as the source for the 6-hour standard.  The only scientifically based safe cooling study, as found in the USDA 9 CFR 318.17 (2), is that reported by Juneja et al (4).  This study showed that there was only about a 1 log multiplication of Clostridium perfringens when cooked hamburger was cooled continuously from 130 to 45°F during a 15-hour cooling period simulating cooling in a commercial retail food service refrigeration unit.

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So, the USDA / FDA / FSIS have been shown to "pick" non defensible positions for "safe food handling practices", yet those guidelines are "more than safe" due to their "leaning to the safe side"...  I guess that opens the door to a contrary position with any member that suggests using the FDA recommendations....

It is good to know that if a member tries to suggest using the FDA food code guidelines, there is always the chance of a stab in the back from a well intentioned moderator citing outlier data....  Looking at the test results, the "outlier" data is correct and the food is safe....   however, the FDA chose to lean to the side of additional precaution...  Making the storage time less than one additional "shift" so to speak in place of the "15" hours that may be perfectly safe seems reasonable...  in some instances...

 

So, lets not extrapolate this information out to the point it is safe in all situations....   Lets stick to the basic FDA / USDA / FSIS guidelines as they are written...  
We are not the makers of the law, we are the followers....

That chart is not "outlier data". It follows USDA and FDA guidelines. It just requires more in-depth knowledge beyond the simple charts handed out by the FDA and USDA for the general public. If someone is not willing to study it more there is no doubt they should follow the "hand out"

post #23 of 23

Well, I guess I haven't studied the FSIS / USDA /  FDA data enough.....   I must be a F'ING idiot....

 

 

That chart is not "outlier data".   It must be outlier data or the FDA would have included it in it's guidelines...

 

 

In your own words......     Please note that this is not approved by the USDA and does not protect 100% of the time.

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