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Curing a Rub of Confusion?

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

Well I've been doing some searching on this forum as well as the internet on curing and rubs, and I'm afraid I'm more confused now...:help:

 

So, is a "Rub" the same or a form of Curing, or are these two different things?

 

I was also looking at "Cold" smoking, so I have a question on this as well.

 

When you cold smoke something...is it already cooked, partially cooked or raw?

 

This cold smoking is what lead me to wonder about curing, as I read somewhere...(can't remember as all the info is becoming blurry) that if you cold smoke the product/meat should be cured first.

So if it is cured, isn't it still semi-raw?

Would I need to cook it further with heat?

 

I know the salt will preserve the meat...so is that similar to how lemon juice reacts on meat?

 

Maybe I'm analyzing too many things at the same time..head-wall.gif

 

 

Also, I've decided to get a Masterbuilt 30 as my first smoker and will move on from there once I'm out of the State of Confusion and into the State of Smok'n!

I'm sure I'll get some answers as I play with it and see & touch the new toy!

 

If you've read this far, thank you for your time, and please advise if you know my confusion.

 

Aloha! thumb1%20copy.gif

post #2 of 16
A rub and a cure a lot different. Cure makes things like ham and bacon. A rub just seasons meat to cook.

Cold smoke is used for cured uncooked meat.
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by c farmer View Post

A rub and a cure a lot different. Cure makes things like ham and bacon. A rub just seasons meat to cook.

Cold smoke is used for cured uncooked meat.


So does that mean after cold smoking a cured uncooked meat, you need to cook it?

post #4 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalua Puaa View Post
 


So does that mean after cold smoking a cured uncooked meat, you need to cook it?

 

Yes that is correct. It needs to be cooked.

 

Al

post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinAl View Post
 

 

Yes that is correct. It needs to be cooked.

 

Al


Thank you Al...you da Man!

post #6 of 16

Yep, what they said.

 

You're going to love your MES 30--I know I sure do..  I would strongly advise you check out Bearcarver's posts regarding models of MES 30 to get and NOT get.  He's very well informed on the subject.

 

Gary

post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalua Puaa View Post
 

Well I've been doing some searching on this forum as well as the internet on curing and rubs, and I'm afraid I'm more confused now...:help:

 

So, is a "Rub" the same or a form of Curing, or are these two different things? A Rub is a Dry Seasoning mix that you put on any meat for flavor. If you add Cure #1 to a Rub, you are now Curing with a Dry Rub. Curing is adding Salt and/or Sodium Nitrite to meat to kill dangerous Bacteria and allow you to Cold Smoke it, as defined as any temps Less than 225°F...

 

I was also looking at "Cold" smoking, so I have a question on this as well.

 

When you cold smoke something...is it already cooked, partially cooked or raw? Some Cured items like Bacon are smoked at ambient temp above 36°F. The Bacon is still raw. Things like Ham and Kielbasa are Cold, actually COOL smoked at 100 to 170°F until it is Cooked as well, an Internal Temp of 145°F or higher. No further cooking needed although we usually heat the meat for service...

 

This cold smoking is what lead me to wonder about curing, as I read somewhere...(can't remember as all the info is becoming blurry) that if you cold smoke the product/meat should be cured first.

So if it is cured, isn't it still semi-raw? Could be, depends on the meat. Curing also gets into advanced techniques like Prosciutto, Coppa and Salami. These are Cured and Dried to preserve the meat. It can be kept at room temp or at cool <70°F for years but the meat is still Raw and only occasionally cooked. There is lots of variation from Cured, completely raw and eaten raw to Cured and Fully Cooked, just at Low Temps (<225°F) for a long time, hours or days...

 

Would I need to cook it further with heat? Boiled down...Curing just means we can Smoke, Cook or Dry the meat at temps less than 225°F without worrying about the growth of Dangerous and Deadly Bacteria...Whether you eat it Raw or after further Cooking depends on the Type of Curing you are doing and what the desired end result will be, Jerky, Bacon, Summer Sausage, Ham, Kielbasa or any of the other hundreds of Cured meats... 

 

I know the salt will preserve the meat...so is that similar to how lemon juice reacts on meat? Lemon Juice is an Acid and used for flavor with a bit of tenderizing. Salt has the ability to pull moisture out of the meat and any active bacteria killing them. Since Bacteria need Moisture to live, take it away with Salt, initial kill, and Drying, does not allow further bacteria to grow, and the meat is preserved. This is a VERY BASIC description of Curing and Drying. There is much more to Curing than just Salt and drying, takes extensive knowledge and Special equipment and conditions to do safely...

 

Maybe I'm analyzing too many things at the same time..head-wall.gif  Pretty Much...Let's get you making some Killer HOT Smoked and cooked meat like Pulled Pork, Ribs and Chicken, SAFELY. Then you will have the basic knowledge to move on to Cold Smoking Cured Meat and eventually Dry Curing and long term Preservation. You ain't Walking yet and you are trying to understand how to win a NASCAR Race... :biggrin:...JJ

 

 

Also, I've decided to get a Masterbuilt 30 as my first smoker and will move on from there once I'm out of the State of Confusion and into the State of Smok'n!

I'm sure I'll get some answers as I play with it and see & touch the new toy!

 

If you've read this far, thank you for your time, and please advise if you know my confusion.

 

Aloha! thumb1%20copy.gif


Edited by Chef JimmyJ - 6/4/16 at 11:12am
post #8 of 16

Wow JJ I can't believe that lately every time I read one of your posts I learn something new.  I think I'd better check myself into a Holiday Inn Express if I want to keep up.  Point to you.

post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper7 View Post
 

Wow JJ I can't believe that lately every time I read one of your posts I learn something new.  I think I'd better check myself into a Holiday Inn Express if I want to keep up.  Point to you.

Thanks Jasper...We are here to help...JJ

post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 

Thank you JJ!

 

Great info, which I'm sure I can/will use once I start walking...I once did drive a NASCAR...well a retired NASCAR...it was loud, fast and smok'n hot!

 

Going to pull out my walker (smoke box) and start walking...

 

It's awesome that people like you with the knowledge are willing to help newbies like me.

 

I appreciate the time you took to respond to my questions...Thank you again! thumb1.gif

post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryHibbert View Post
 

Yep, what they said.

 

You're going to love your MES 30--I know I sure do..  I would strongly advise you check out Bearcarver's posts regarding models of MES 30 to get and NOT get.  He's very well informed on the subject.

 

Gary

Thank you Gary!

 

I'll do a search on his postings...I'll be picking it up this evening IF the rain stops!

post #12 of 16

Walker? :77: No Insult intended! It is not uncommon to get excited about a new hobby and dive so deep into the information that it becomes overwelming. This is especially true of an Art like smoking and curing meat. Ask," How long do I smoke a pork butt and at what temp? " And you will get 25 different answers as there are many ways to get a great result. Curing is the Art of Smoking Meat PLUS science combined. The big difference is, you don't smoke meat long enough and it's tough to chew...Don't Cure properly and you and your loved ones are hospitalized or worse. Hang around, read, ask lots of question and just like learning to drive, you will soon be in the Winners Circle...avatar3972_3.gifdriving.gif:first:...JJ

post #13 of 16

I know just how you feel about getting overwhelmed when starting out.

Just take it easy and slow at first, after a little while things start to come together.

The one thing that you always want to keep in mind is have FUN.

Chef JJ, thank you for very informative editing on the post.

I will be saving it on my hard drive.

 

               Ed

post #14 of 16
JJ covered just about everything.

Cold smoking goes a bit deeper. There are many things that can be cold smoked that do not require the use of cure.

Cheese, butter, nuts, fruits, veggies all can be cold smoked without cure.

Since you are getting a MES you will need to do a few modifications to cold smoke.

Get your feet wet by hot smoking meats then read up on cold smoking and doing cured meat.

Are you in the islands or mainland? When I lived in Waimea my neighbor was always smoking wild goat. Good stuff!
post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtsailor2003 View Post

JJ covered just about everything.

Cold smoking goes a bit deeper. There are many things that can be cold smoked that do not require the use of cure.

Cheese, butter, nuts, fruits, veggies all can be cold smoked without cure.

Since you are getting a MES you will need to do a few modifications to cold smoke.

Get your feet wet by hot smoking meats then read up on cold smoking and doing cured meat.

Are you in the islands or mainland? When I lived in Waimea my neighbor was always smoking wild goat. Good stuff!


Yup...I'm taking all the advice on getting my feet wet first before free diving for the Ulua!

 

Very good info here for me to digest and start off with...apparently my MES did not come in yet however, I did order a A-MAZE-N Pellet smoker 5x8...getting all my ducks in a row for the cook out, eventually I may get a mailbox too!

 

Nope, no longer living on the Island, after being born and raised there for 59yrs, my wife and I decided to move to Texas.

I never thought I'd get into something like this, as I'm more into cars & firearms...not smoking meat...maybe smoking some Pakalolo, but not meat.

However, this hobby is starting to pique my interest and hopefully it will take some cook time off from my wife.

 

Waimea huh...is that Waimea on the Big Island? That place is nice a cool...if the cost of living and the politics weren't so bad, we would have moved there...my mom was born there on Parker Ranch.

post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalua Puaa View Post


Waimea huh...is that Waimea on the Big Island? That place is nice a cool...if the cost of living and the politics weren't so bad, we would have moved there...my mom was born there on Parker Ranch.

Yes I lived there for several months. I have a friend who still lives there. I'd drive past Parker ranch twice a day to get into Halualoa where I was working.
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