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Pid build, issues is it the pid or the wiring ???

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 








Mypin ta4-ssr pid with k type thermo

I have a 40 amp ssr with heat sink

All right so today we wired our first PID controller . Basically according to the instructions and schematics I found on the internet we believe that it is wired correctly. However, I'm no electrician so I'm reaching out!
His is what I have in a nutshell... According to my pid terminal 1-2 are for 90-260v and terminals 3 (-) - 4 (+) are for the ssr output and the others are alarm 1 5-6 and so on. Thermocouple is a k type and put on 7-8 (pid I believe shows 7 (-) and 8 (+).
Onto the wiring of the box I'll post visuals but this is what I have ....

On input side of ssr to pid I have a wire from ssr terminal 3 + to pid terminal #4, another wire from ssr (-) to pid terminal #3.

Now on the output side of the ssr the switch more less I have my hot wire from wall power cord l tied into a wire off of #2 on ssr and also tied with black wire hooked to pid terminal #2. ( all those blacks are tied together).

My nuetral wire from my wall power cord I have tied with femal end neutral, also another white wire jumped over to pid terminal #1.

My hot wire (black off my femal plug which my element would be plugged into I have going to the output side of ssr to #1.
Both grounds from power cord and female plug also a chassis ground are all tied together l.

Basically my understanding was that when your heating element is plugged into the female end. You set your value temp and the swing of degrees say 5 degrees. When your below your set heating value you. The ssr would light up and front of the pid where output is would be solid? What is happening with mine is I have a constant surging of output like the ssr on switch side is opening and closing irrationally .

To verify that was happening I plugged in a light after programming according to manual and my output led on pid blinks irrationally and doesn't even to be working properly.
post #2 of 18
Check your programming. I think the "P" parameter should be "off" and the "hys" parameter set to "5". That's for the myPIN controller. That solved it for me. Best to check this link as well:
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/148997/mypin-ta4-pid-manual-programming-instructions-and-general-pid-ssr-info-by-request
post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Basically yours was doing the same thing? That was the mypin with the ssr model??
It just seems like the pid and ssr communication was not correct at all. Programmed it according to the heat recommendation. I will try changing that and see what happens... Other than that did the wiring seem to match what you had?
post #4 of 18
A diagram of the wiring would be better. Hard to follow the words, for me at least. Yes mine did the same. I set it up originally like I stated, but then tried the "Learn" mode and got the rapid cycling. Went back to manual programming as originally done. Haven't tried anything else as it is working now. Fingers crossed.
post #5 of 18
Thread Starter 





Essentially that schematic is exactly how i got my two wired up.
Now to that tuning of the pid and you said to turn the p off? What abbreviation on the pid in the settings did you do that under? And set the swing temp to 5? Maybe it's a programming issue .. I have the mypin ta4-ssr model or whatever .

If could man appreciate it, maybe help me a little further on the tuning and getting rid of that rapid cycle
post #6 of 18
If you wired it exactly like the diagram then it's good as far as I know. Matches mine anyway. Try this:

1. Press and hold "set" button for 3 seconds. This puts you in Menu mode.
2. Press "set" until "P"
3. Press "AT" then "up/down" until "off"
4. Press "set" to lock in.
5. Press "set" until "HYS"
6. Press "AT" then "up/down" until "5" ( I use 3 degrees)
7. Press "set" to lock in.
8. Wait until unit exits menu mode on its own.

For a better set of instructions and all other parameters go to the document "mypin ta4 pid instruction manual - good one.pdf" referenced in the previous link I sent you.
post #7 of 18

Brandon,

 

I just received your PM and sent you a reply.  I think it is in the PID setup.  You need to step through what it is set for now and make sure it matches what I sent you.  Another possibility is a bad PID.  It happens.

post #8 of 18
Thread Starter 
I set that parameter (p) in the pid programming from I think I had 8.00 per my paper manual for heating. I turned that off and your correct the cycling seems to be correct for the temp. Dward mentioned an auto tune mode which not sure on that one how to do it ?? Tardis have you done this with your mypin also looking for a way to verify he probe is caliberated and reading properly
post #9 of 18
Thread Starter 
Fellas, good news since turning that p value to off I'm able to get the pid and ssr to communicate properly.
Next issue not sure if it is a issue but I did he ice water trick for probe caliberation.
In my ice water after letting ice sit in there three minutes and 1 stir.
I'm getting a temp of about 27 f which looked it up should be closer to 32 f.
Anyway to negate that or is it worth worrying about? As this is for a smoker and those few degrees aren't to critical. For the sake of flawless product as possible o kind of want to change it .

Again thanks guys for all the help this forum is a true mentor in general and all of you advocates that swing the knowledge are awesome!!
post #10 of 18
You have 2 choices. Set the temperature to compensate or change the "input offset" parameter. It's in the manual I referenced above.
post #11 of 18
Thread Starter 
Tardis,
I watched s video and went into the p | | f = menu in setting s and compensated it by +5.5 and it got my to with in 1 degree of what the ice water should be reading. The whole auto tune thing I'm not sure on doing yet, I've read people have better results setting it manually.
Now with us turning the parameter to off the hysteresis or whatever is not valid and won't operate correct? According to the manual I read the link you sent. There's also a video tutorial on the manual I found too.
post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
What dictates how far that probe and pid reading is off? Is there something else I should check or is this normal in pid adjustments
post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 


Actual reading is 32.9 and set is 32 , I'd say that will work for monitoring house temp of smoker
post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
I'm a chatter box today lol just trying to get it dialed in. Only concern I have which may go back to what dward said is when I et the temp to 52 degrees and my basement is reading 42. I grabbed the tip of the probe for a quick second and it climbs fast but over shoots the temp by quite a bit. Drops fairly slowly is this something I negate in the setting as well???
post #15 of 18
Not that I am aware of. Your smoker won't heat up at that acceleration rate anyway. Mine swings +/- 3-5 degrees depending on weather conditions. Close enough for cooking. How precise do you need to control the temp. Then a different style of probe might work.

With the "P" parameter set to "off", it's now acting like a thermostat. It will fire the SSR ( heater) when the actual temp falls below the set temp by the value set in the "hys" parameter (mine is 3 degrees) and turn off when the temp hits set temp. That works for me. If there is a way to get it to control finer, I don't know how. And auto tuning is what set the cycling off on mine originally so I went back to the manual program.

Good luck with you smoking.
Bruce
post #16 of 18

Brandon,

 

When you have the smoking cabinet completed, I would run an auto tune cycle on that PID.  That lets the computer circuit inside the PID do it's job and learn how your individual smoker responds to the heating element.  It can then anticipate with fairly high precision when heat will be needed.  Yes, you can manually tune it, but you will be changing the settings over and over again to get the same high precision the PID can set with an auto tune cycle.  Also the PID settings for another smoker will likely not be correct for yours unless it is identical in size, design, insulation, etc...

 

Like TardisSmoker said, with the P value set to off, it's basically a dumb thermostat.  It will work, but it will have a greater temp swing inside the smoker.  The whole purpose of the PID is when properly set, it anticipates a call for heat from the heating element before it's actually needed and holds the set temp much tighter than a simple on/off thermostat would.  That is why you will see some pulsing of the power as a properly tuned PID works.

 

To run an auto tune cycle, it's pretty simple.  Press and hold the "AT" button for at least 3 seconds, until the "AT" LED lights.  When the "AT" LED goes out, it's done and ready to be used with that smoker.

 

Keep in mind that the best auto tune would be one that simulates smoking conditions as closely as possible.  So you need some sort of thermal mass to simulate the cold meat.  You can put a few bricks on the rack of the smoker to simulate the meat as the bricks will soak up some of the heat similar to the way meat will.

 

Also remember that a PID tune for smoking in the heat of summer will likely need to be re-tuned in the cold of winter (depends on how well insulated the smoker is).  But you can re-tune the PID anytime, and repeated auto tune cycles do not harm the unit.

 

Also the reason the temp goes up quickly when you grab the probe is your body temp is much higher than the air temp, so it climbs rapidly.  When you release the probe, it slowly radiates the heat it absorbed from your hand away, and cools lower than it heated.  If you were to stick it into a glass of room temp water, it would drop fairly rapidly.  The difference is air by it's self does not thermally conduct heat as well as your hand or water would.  What you saw is normal.

 

I think you are to the point of completing the smoker and seeing how the unit runs as a whole.

post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 
Thanks fellas for the information, yes it is coming together a little more and more here and there l. Decided this morning a switch would be best to power on the unit. Idea of just unplugging and plugging in seemed little harsh for length of use.

Here is the completed switch
post #18 of 18





I use this on an analog Masterbuilt smoker. I turn the factory stat on high (its not very accurate) and plug it into my control box. Way better than the factory stuff. I can use it on anything that is 120vac. 😀👏
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