Awesome recipe for a wicked smoked samon

cflbob · Jan 17, 2016

I need to figure out what concentration of salt is required to cure the fish. Maybe even better, alternative ways to cure fish. I have a problem with sugar - not diabetic, yet, but I'm the only one in my family that doesn't have it. I do my best avoiding it completely. Because of that, I wanted to use the least amount of sugar I could get away with.

HalfSmoked · Jan 17, 2016

JckDanls 07 said:

HalfSmoked · Jan 17, 2016

CFLBob said:
It was a successful smoking, but came out too salty for my taste. The texture was good, and the fish flaked easily when done. I used 1:1 ratio salt to sugar, and a 1 1/2 pound salmon fillet cut into pieces which shrank up A LOT while soaking (50%?). BTW, the "CFL" in my name means central Florida, about 2000 miles from the nearest living salmon, so it was from the fish market and supposedly never frozen.

I've never been one to salt food, so it may just be my tastes.

daveomak · Jan 18, 2016

CFLBob said:
I need to figure out what concentration of salt is required to cure the fish. Maybe even better, alternative ways to cure fish. I have a problem with sugar - not diabetic, yet, but I'm the only one in my family that doesn't have it. I do my best avoiding it completely. Because of that, I wanted to use the least amount of sugar I could get away with.

Bob, morning..... Try weighing your slabs of fish.... Then add 2% salt and 2% sugar... about 12 hours later, rinse and dry.... That would give you a good starting point to make future adjustments... I like that combination... it allows for the flavor of the fish shine without being salty or sweet.... I add cure #1 to all my fish to stop the threat of botulism at a rate of 1.1 grams per pound of fish.... If you would like a recipe, PM me.... Dave.....

wade · Jan 18, 2016

CFLBob said:
I need to figure out what concentration of salt is required to cure the fish. Maybe even better, alternative ways to cure fish. I have a problem with sugar - not diabetic, yet, but I'm the only one in my family that doesn't have it. I do my best avoiding it completely. Because of that, I wanted to use the least amount of sugar I could get away with.

Hi Bob

When smoking salmon you do not actually need to use sugar in the cure at all. It is often there in recipes to balance out the flavour of too much salt. Some people like a salty product but, like you, I do not.

The highest qualities of commercial smoked salmon (at least the ones produced here in the UK for the likes of Harrods and Fortnum and Mason) use a dry cure and use only salt - no sugar at all. Whether you are planning to hot smoke or cold smoke you can use the same basic dry cure process. It is important to use a coarse grain (kosher) salt or coarse sea salt and apply a thin coating of salt on the surfaces of the fish. If you use a fine grain salt the end result will be considerably more salty. If you are hot smoking you only need to leave the salmon in the salt for 3-4 hours and it can also be laid on the bottom of a container to cure without it becoming too salty. If cold smoking then it will be left in the salt for 24 hours (or more) and therefore it is best placed on a wire rack to allow the liquid brine to drain away from the fish.

If you are interested I can post up a Q-view showing the step by step process in a new thread.

Wade

cflbob · Jan 18, 2016

Dave,

Thanks! 1.1 grams of salt per pound of fish is a dead easy number to remember, and my kitchen scale measures in both systems at the push of a button.

Wait... did you mean 1.1 grams of the mix?

Wade,

I did a dry brine. Packed a mix of coarse grained kosher salt and light brown sugar, at a rate of 1:1.

I guess it gets back to the way I read the OP. The part that stuck with me was the one cup of salt - I thought that meant it needed that much salt, and the OP added two cups of sugar to cut the salt taste. The salt had to be one cup and the sugar was there to dilute the taste. I went to YouTube and saw two different videos, both of which started with a cup of salt. So I cut the sugar 1:1, thinking I'd see what it tasted like and then cut more sugar next time if it was OK.

I put this into the refrigerator for an overnight brine late Friday night, but the Saturday morning, it was still mostly dry mix. I let it sit longer in the powder, and that eventually pulled more water out of the fish, but then it got too late in the day to smoke the salmon. So I left it in the mix overnight again until Sunday morning. By that time, the salmon was pretty dry and firm to the touch, so it seemed right. Like I say, the texture came out nice, it was just the salty taste that bothered me. Maybe it sat in the salt too long, too.

The first smoker I ever had was a Lil Chief, for smoking fish. I used to smoke fish I caught, like Spanish Mackerel, King Mackerel and some others. I used a liquid brine for those, from a booklet that came with the smoker. Wish I had that recipe now.

Thanks,

Bob

wade · Jan 18, 2016

CFLBob said:
I put this into the refrigerator for an overnight brine late Friday night, but the Saturday morning, it was still mostly dry mix. I let it sit longer in the powder, and that eventually pulled more water out of the fish, but then it got too late in the day to smoke the salmon. So I left it in the mix overnight again until Sunday morning. By that time, the salmon was pretty dry and firm to the touch, so it seemed right. Like I say, the texture came out nice, it was just the salty taste that bothered me. Maybe it sat in the salt too long, too.

Thanks,

Bob

If you are doing such a long cure (overnight +) then try placing it on a rack to drain. If you leave it in the wet brine/slush that is created from the water from the fish then you will get a much greater uptake of salt. This is not such a problem with shorter cures.

daveomak · Jan 18, 2016

CFLBob said:
Dave,

Thanks! 1.1 grams of salt per pound of fish is a dead easy number to remember, and my kitchen scale measures in both systems at the push of a button.   9 grams of salt per pound of fish

Wait... did you mean 1.1 grams of the mix? I add cure #1 to all my fish to stop the threat of botulism at a rate of 1.1 grams per pound of fish....

And if you make a mix of 1:1 sugar and salt, add 18 grams of the mix per pound...   If you add cure #1 to the mix, add 1.1 grams of cure #1 for every 18 grams of mix...   then add 18 grams of mix per pound of fish.....

Thanks,

Bob

cflbob · Jan 18, 2016

DaveOmak said:
Thanks! 1.1 grams of salt per pound of fish is a dead easy number to remember, and my kitchen scale measures in both systems at the push of a button.   9 grams of salt per pound of fish

Wait... did you mean 1.1 grams of the mix? I add cure #1 to all my fish to stop the threat of botulism at a rate of 1.1 grams per pound of fish....

And if you make a mix of 1:1 sugar and salt, add 18 grams of the mix per pound...   If you add cure #1 to the mix, add 1.1 grams of cure #1 for every 18 grams of mix...   then add 18 grams of mix per pound of fish.....

Got it! I missed the reference to cure #1. Thanks for the clarification.

thesmokingirl · Jan 18, 2016

Hey guys, sorry to hear it turned out a little salty for you. The 1:2 kosher salt to brown sugar worked magnificent for me, as long as honey and maple syrup are added... If left longer than a day in the brine I can definitely see the salmon soaking up more salt ...
Brown sugar is definitely not necessary, however, it all comes down to your desired taste preference. Myself, I love the sweetness of a smoked salmon. This recipe I gave you guys was pretty much my cup of tea for smoked salmon. It's good to see everyone experimenting with the ratios, and finding whats right for you. Everyone is different. Thanks for all the salmon chat :)
Cheers to everyone

thesmokingirl · Jan 18, 2016

dirtsailor2003 said:
1:1 ratio is way too much. For years I have done a 4:1 sugar to salt ratio and it is what we prefer. The 2:1 that was used in the OP's recipe here is probably fine because honey and maple syrup were added too.

My first ever salmon smoke was 1:1 and it was WAY too salty. I had to chase each piece with a glass of water. 2:1 has always been perfect for me. Or even cut the salt in half if that's preferred? 2 cup brown sugar to 1/2 cup kosher salt. It's hard to say because you need the right amount of kosher salt to really harden the salmon. :)
Cheers

wade · Jan 18, 2016

Both hot and cold smoked salmon are usually chilled and consumed within 10 days, or they are subsequently frozen. Unless you are considering storing them unchilled or for longer periods of time without freezing then the use of Cure #1 is not required. You may want to add it though if you are uncertain as to the provenance of the fish (in which case do not eat it) or is a variety that is more susceptible to having botulinum in their intestines or gills (usually more prevalent in bottom dwelling muddy river or lake fish).

Botulism as a result of eating fish is rare. The last recorded outbreak in the UK was in 1955 and was as a result of eating pickled imported fish. I do not have figures for the USA though - it may be more common there. The table below from the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations shows laboratory results of different types of fish that were each inoculated with one million botulinum organisms (which is far higher than is found naturally occurring in fish) and the number of days that it took before they became potentially toxic at different temperatures.

Fish product	Temperature of storage
	5°C	10°C	20°C
Herring	11	5	1
Cod		10
Plaice		10
Scallops			6
Kippers		9	2
Smoked salmon		18	7
Smoked trout		11	5
Smoked haddock		29	3

Even if you were to store it at room temperature (say 20 C (68 F)) it would still take at least 7 days before the botulinum toxic became potentially toxic. At higher temperatures this would be less, but I am sorry I don't have any figures to show how long it may take if left in your backpack while you are hiking around Furnace Creek in 46 C (115 F).

Providing you keep your smoked salmon chilled and eat it within 10 days (or freeze it for longer term storage) then there is no need to use nitrite in your cure. Of course, if you do it will not hurt you either - providing it is within safe limits.

cflbob · Jan 18, 2016

thesmokingirl said:
Hey guys, sorry to hear it turned out a little salty for you. The 1:2 kosher salt to brown sugar worked magnificent for me, as long as honey and maple syrup are added... If left longer than a day in the brine I can definitely see the salmon soaking up more salt ...
Brown sugar is definitely not necessary, however, it all comes down to your desired taste preference. Myself, I love the sweetness of a smoked salmon. This recipe I gave you guys was pretty much my cup of tea for smoked salmon. It's good to see everyone experimenting with the ratios, and finding whats right for you. Everyone is different. Thanks for all the salmon chat :)
Cheers to everyone

Not a problem at all. After reading your recipe, you pointed me to a bunch of others that were all based on a dry brine made of one cup of salt and either 1, 2, or 3 cups of brown sugar. Being a low carb guy, I used as little sugar as I thought I could get away with.

The local grocery store sells a smoked salmon that I love which uses zero sugar. I was trying for that.

Bob

cflbob · Jan 18, 2016

Wade said:
Both hot and cold smoked salmon are usually chilled and consumed within 10 days, or they are subsequently frozen. Unless you are considering storing them unchilled or for longer periods of time without freezing then the use of Cure #1 is not required. You may want to add it though if you are uncertain as to the provenance of the fish (in which case do not eat it) or is a variety that is more susceptible to having botulinum in their intestines or gills (usually more prevalent in bottom dwelling muddy river or lake fish).

Botulism as a result of eating fish is rare. The last recorded outbreak in the UK was in 1955 and was as a result of eating pickled imported fish. I do not have figures for the USA though - it may be more common there. The table below from the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations shows laboratory results of different types of fish that were each inoculated with one million botulinum organisms (which is far higher than is found naturally occurring in fish) and the number of days that it took before they became potentially toxic at different temperatures.

Fish product

Temperature of storage

5°C

10°C

20°C

Herring

11

5

1

Cod

10

Plaice

10

Scallops

6

Kippers

9

2

Smoked salmon

18

7

Smoked trout

11

5

Smoked haddock

29

3

Even if you were to store it at room temperature (say 20 C (68 F)) it would still take at least 7 days before the botulinum toxic became potentially toxic. At higher temperatures this would be less, but I am sorry I don't have any figures to show how long it may take if left in your backpack while you are hiking around Furnace Creek in 46 C (115 F).

Providing you keep your smoked salmon chilled and eat it within 10 days (or freeze it for longer term storage) then there is no need to use nitrite in your cure. Of course, if you do it will not hurt you either - providing it is within safe limits.

Thanks for this! The chances of a smoked salmon making it 10 days without being eaten are about the same as the Powerball lottery. At least around my place. Yesterday's batch is gone already, even with both of us thinking it was too salty.

daveomak · Jan 18, 2016

Some interesting articles for your information...

Recent recalls on botulism in fish.....

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...purs-minnesota-to-issue-warning-on-dried-fish

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...lmon-bacon-recalled-due-to-threat-of-botulism

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/163731/smoked-fish-recalled-in-canada-for-potential-botulism

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/five-most-poisonous-substances-polonium-mercury

1. Botulinum toxins

Even though some of them are used in the cosmetic industry (including in botox), the botulinum family of neurotoxins includes the most toxic substances known to man. The LD50 values reported for these seven proteins are about 5 ng/kg (ng stands for nanogram, which is a billionth of a gram).

Non-lethal quantities injected into mice can paralyse the affected limb for as long as a month. The exquisite selectivity of these toxins for certain types of cells in the human body is remarkable, but also means that many species (including all invertebrates) are simply unaffected.

cflbob · Jan 18, 2016

Forty years ago, I took an junior level microbiology class in college. The prof talked about botulinum and said something like one teaspoon of the toxin would kill every living soul in North and South America.

cmayna · Jan 18, 2016

smokin phil · Jan 18, 2016

wade · Jan 19, 2016

DaveOmak said:
Some interesting articles for your information...

Recent recalls on botulism in fish.....

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...purs-minnesota-to-issue-warning-on-dried-fish

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...lmon-bacon-recalled-due-to-threat-of-botulism

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/163731/smoked-fish-recalled-in-canada-for-potential-botulism

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/five-most-poisonous-substances-polonium-mercury

Good articles Dave. They show that our/your food inspectors are doing their job of prevention and ensuring that the food that we do buy is safe. I expect there are regularly similar notices issued for all types of food too (not only fish) as they work tirelessly keep the foods that are in our shops safe to eat.

HalfSmoked · Jan 20, 2016

I'm a long ways away from fresh salmon and I was wondering if this would work with other types of fish? I like my fish fresh if I can get it here I have yellow fin and blue fin tuna as well as blue fish and striped bass (we call rock fish)

Awesome recipe for a wicked smoked samon

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