2nd attempt at ham........ 2nd fail..

mowin · Dec 21, 2015

Here's my first fail.http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/237741/my-first-try-at-ham-didnt-come-out-as-well-as-i-hoped

My second attempt I purchased a boneless butt.

IMG_20151203_125552473.jpg

mowin
Dec 21, 2015

I put it in pops brine on Dec 2nd. On the 9th, I had to change the brine because it became ropy.
New Brine was fine when I pulled it on the 19th. Rinced and sat overnight in fridge. Cold smoked for 18hrs. Let sit overnight, and smoked today @ 225* until it of 165* was reached. I foiled it and checked for probe tender every 10*. Probe tender was 195*
Let it sit for an hr, cut into it and very tender and juicy. I cut a small piece and poped in in my mouth. I barley bit through it, when the rancidness hit me... needless to say I spit it out, but I can't get that taste out of my mouth. 151 rum didn't help..lol.
Meat had a uniform pink color throughout.

IMG_20151221_200858569_HDR.jpg

mowin
Dec 21, 2015

I know for a fact cure #1 was used for both batches of pops brine, 1 tbsp pre gal. Its always the first ingredient I add.
I've tested my maverick 732 in ice water and its spot on. So I know the therm in the fridge is correct, as I checked it with the 732.
38*..

The ham smelled good when I opened it, and it also smelled good before I smoked it.

Worst part, wife came home and asked, what smells soooo good, and I'm starving.

So if I don't post in the next day or two, I've been poisoned by my own hand..:head-wall:

Edit: I did inject also....

pc farmer · Dec 21, 2015

So it was tender and juicy.

Rancidness, like rotten?

mowin · Dec 21, 2015

Yes, spoiled... Taste was nasty...

dirtsailor2003 · Dec 21, 2015

Something isn't right. I'd start with new cure. Then if you purchased the meat from the same place try another store. Ive never had an issue with Pop's brine before.

Are you bring in a bag, or container? The dopey brine does suggest some temperature or moisture fluctuations. Can you monitor the humidity in your fridge? Can you leave a temp probe in for a day to graph the temperature of the fridge over a period of time?

pc farmer · Dec 21, 2015

I have had the brine go ropey, just made new and good to go. I have went as long as 25 days on a bone in loin.

Case has some good questions.

mowin · Dec 21, 2015

Two different cuts of meat from two different stores. Not in bags, in food grade containers, with covers. I do not have a graph to monitor temps. However. When I checked the fridge temps I checked every 2 hrs for a couple days(new project fridge) , except for overnight. Temps held steady at 37-38*. Humidity? No clue. But, I did have 4 venison roasts in the same fridge during the same time with pops brine( different container) as this ham to be, to be made into v pastrami.
This came out great btw.

IMG_20151221_122454557.jpg

mowin
Dec 21, 2015

The venison didn't go bad, or get ropy, durring the same time frame as this pork cut. I'm thinking I'm bad luck when it comes to ham.
Maybe a double smoked ham is the way to go. Something about creating a mouth watering meal from scratch is why I attempted this twice. Maybe its a sign from above. Lol.

Edit: I don't think it's a issue with pop's brine. I've used it several times with fantastic results. I will use it again with confidence.
I really think the first attempt I didn't bring it to the proper IT. Very tuff. This attempt was much better as far as tenderness, but something went askew. Bad piece of meat? It happens. I screwed up? I'm not perfect. Could be?

I think I'm frustrated. It smelled so good. Wife and I were so looking forward to this meal. Only to be severely dissatisfied.

pc farmer · Dec 21, 2015

Did you use the same container for both hams? Different then the venison.

dirtsailor2003 · Dec 21, 2015

So reading your posts, the first ham was edible. The second was not. It may be that you got bad meat to start with on the second one.

I wouldn't use shoulder for making ham unless I was going to be making pulled ham. The picnic would be better for making ham.

mowin · Dec 21, 2015

I have three containers. All the same. Im anal when it comes to cleaning them. Scalding hot water and dish soap with several rinses. I then store them upside down in a cabinet. I pull one when needed, and rinse and wash and rinse again, several times w hot water.

Was this the same container as the first ham to be? Maybe? Was it clean, absolutely. No doubt in my mind. Venison was brined the same day, using the same mix, except for pickling spices, in a different container.

There's only two, ok three things that could have gone wrong.

1. I screwed up. Not saying it's impossible, but???
2. Meat was questionable? ?
3. I have a gremlin looking over me when it comes to making ham from a fresh cut of pork...

I'm just frustrated. Thanks to all that are trying to help me figure this out. I really appreciate it.

pc farmer · Dec 21, 2015

We will try to get you through this.

pc farmer · Dec 21, 2015

dirtsailor2003 said:
So reading your posts, the first ham was edible. The second was not. It may be that you got bad meat to start with on the second one.

I wouldn't use shoulder for making ham unless I was going to be making pulled ham. The picnic would be better for making ham.

Picnics and butts are both from the shoulder as i am sure you know ??

I have made plenty of hams from butts.

dirtsailor2003 · Dec 21, 2015

c farmer said:
Picnics and butts are both from the shoulder as i am sure you know ??

I have made plenty of hams from butts.

Yes they are from the same primal cut. However the picnics meat is textured differently, and in my opinion lends itself better to being sliced like most serve ham. The fat make up in the picnic comes typically in pockets and not as marbled as the Boston or butt cut.

Yes you can make good ham from butts, but it's not my favorite.

mowin · Dec 21, 2015

dirtsailor2003 said:
So reading your posts, the first ham was edible. The second was not. It may be that you got bad meat to start with on the second one.

I wouldn't use shoulder for making ham unless I was going to be making pulled ham. The picnic would be better for making ham.

Yes, edible, but not chewable. Lol. Only took first one to a IT of 165* I believe it didn't render or break down enough to make it chewable.

This 2nd one it was hard to probe at 165*. I decided to foil and steam ( took advice from first post, and several others) to probe tender.
that happened to be 195*. As stated, it was so juicy and tender. I never thought to give it a sniff. Overzealous? Ya I'll admit that. I poped that piece in my mouth and barely bit through it before I spit it out. Just hoping I don't get sick for Christmas.

I guess I'm looking for reassurance from you guys that I didn't screw up. Knowing full well you really can't do that. Guess I'm venting.
Thanks for listening. Thumbs Up

daveomak · Dec 22, 2015

7 days for the brine to become ropy is a sign of bacteria multiplying.... Dirty bucket, bad water, fridge not cold enough, bad salt, bad sugar, bad cure #1.....
Are you adding herbs and spices.... they could be full of bacteria...

And then there's the hunk of meat...

This makes no sense to me...

mowin · Dec 22, 2015

Dave, my salt, sugar, and cure that I used are in there original sealed containers. I used the same for the ven pastrami, and that didn't turn ropey. Water, never thought about that. I do have well water. But I used tap water for the pastrami also.

I will try again. 3rd times a charm, right?

bmaddox · Dec 22, 2015

How much brine did you use? Was it a whole gallon? Did you weigh the meat down to ensure it was submerged? Did you cut into it when you pulled it from the brine to make sure it cured all the way through?

Since you got the vension right it sounds like you have a firm grasp on the steps required. That would leave the meat as the variable and if it was bad to start the brine would not help it.

mowin · Dec 22, 2015

I mixed up one gal. I put a glass dish on top to keep the meat submerged. I did not cut the ham in half before smoking. However the ham has a very even pink color throughout. I injected brine in several places as this was about 4" thick.

I'm leaning towards a bad piece of meat. It's must have been on the edge when I started the curing process.

chef jimmyj · Dec 22, 2015

It had to be the meat. Your procedure is spot on, the Venison confirms this. Most food poisoning will show in 6-12 hours. If you are upright today, you will have a Merry Christmas...JJ

flareside92 · Dec 22, 2015

I would say meat as well. I have used Pops brine for everything and only one time did I get nasty brine.
The bucket I used I put the lid on and I found out later that kids were in and out of this fridge looking for something to drink.
Pop's brine has never failed me

mowin · Dec 22, 2015

Chef JimmyJ said:
It had to be the meat. Your procedure is spot on, the Venison confirms this. Most food poisoning will show in 6-12 hours. If you are upright today, you will have a Merry Christmas...JJ

Thankfully I'm feeling ok. Was a little nervous though.

I'll take a break from curing a ham for a while. But I will win this war, lol. Think I may do a double smoked ham.. hard to mess up.

Thanks for all your help. Merry Christmas.

2nd attempt at ham........ 2nd fail..

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