Now I am totally confused.

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callmaker60

Fire Starter
Original poster
Nov 20, 2015
63
10
Camp Hill, Pennsylvania
After reading, watching youtube video's on making beef snack sticks, I am totally confused on internal temp. One video says 155 IT. The IT on the LEM package says 165 IT, I just watched a youtube video, and they cook them to 185 IT. I guess I need to know what is the lowest and safe IT?
 
 
After reading, watching youtube video's on making beef snack sticks, I am totally confused on internal temp. One video says 155 IT. The IT on the LEM package says 165 IT, I just watched a youtube video, and they cook them to 185 IT. I guess I need to know what is the lowest and safe IT?
Somebody else should confirm this, but I think this Forum recommends taking Sticks to 160° IT to be safe.

Bear
 
Below is a pasteurization table... It describes the temperature and time required to make meats safe to eat.....


Temperature Time Temperature Time
°F (°C) (Minutes) °F (°C) (Seconds)

130 (54.4) 112 min... 146 (63.3) 169 sec
131 (55.0) 89 min.... 147 (63.9) 134 sec
132 (55.6) 71 min.... 148 (64.4) 107 sec
133 (56.1) 56 min.... 149 (65.0) 85 sec
134 (56.7) 45 min.... 150 (65.6) 67 sec
135 (57.2) 36 min.... 151 (66.1) 54 sec
136 (57.8) 28 min.... 152 (66.7) 43 sec
137 (58.4) 23 min.... 153 (67.2) 34 sec
138 (58.9) 18 min.... 154 (67.8) 27 sec
139 (59.5) 15 min.... 155 (68.3) 22 sec
140 (60.0) 12 min.... 156 (68.9) 17 sec
141 (60.6) 9 min...... 157 (69.4) 14 sec
142 (61.1) 8 min...... 158 (70.0) 0 sec
143 (61.7) 6 min.......
144 (62.2) 5 min.......
145 (62.8) 4 min.......

Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).


Another source.... with explanations..

http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/ai407e/AI407E08.htm


FWIW, I usually double the time recommended at lower temperatures.... JUST IN CASE my therm is off or other sections of meat may have not reached the temperature all at the same time.....

example... 135 deg. for 36 minutes..... I extend to at least 72 minutes at that temp....
 
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Finished them a few hours ago, took to mid 150's into cold water, then fridge, turned out very good.  So from now on, i'll shoot for mid 150's.

Thanks for the replies.
 
Guys---I once said 152° IT was safe & I got yelled at !!!

They said---on SMF it is 160°.

Bear
 
Guys---I once said 152° IT was safe & I got yelled at !!!

They said---on SMF it is 160°.


Bear


Hey Bear..... Just tell 'em your following an approved pasteurization table from the FDA.....

Table C.1: Pasteurization times for beef, corned beef, lamb, pork and cured pork (FDA, 2009, 3-401.11.B.2).
 
 
Guys---I once said 152° IT was safe & I got yelled at !!!

They said---on SMF it is 160°.

Bear
I'm with bear on this.... USDA says all ground meat needs to be brought to 160 degrees. The USDA does not recognize what temp ground meat should be brought too with cure..... We will follow  USDA guidelines for ground meat

If you can find something different ..please let us know
 
Joe, morning.... Found a NON - Intact table... Dave

FSIS Compliance Guideline: Controlling Listeria monocytogenes in Post-lethality Exposed Ready-to-Eat Meat and Poultry Products
January 2014

FSIS Guidance on Safe Cooking of Non-Intact Meat Chops, Roasts, and Steaks April 2009
Temp °F/ Temp °C /Time for 5.0 log Reduction
Unit Time
130- 54.4- 86 min.
131- 55.0- 69 min.
132 -55.6 -55 min.
133 -56.1- 44 min.
134 -56.7 -35 min.
135 -57.2- 28 min.
136 -57.8 -22 min.
137 -58.4 -18 min.
138 -58.9 -14 min.
139 -59.5 -11 min.
140- 60.0 -9 min.
141 -60.6 -7 min.
142 -61.1 -6 min.
143 -61.7- 5 min.
144 -62.2- 4 min.
145 -62.8 -3 min.
146- 63.3 -130 sec.
147- 63.9 103 sec.
148 -64.4 -82 sec.
149- 65.0 -65 sec.
150- 65.6 -52 sec.
151- 66.1 -41 sec.
152- 66.7- 33 sec.
153- 67.2 -26 sec.
154- 67.8- 21 sec.
155- 68.3 -17 sec.
156 -68.9 -14 sec.
157 -69.4 -11 sec.
158 -70.0- 0 sec.
159 -70.6- 0 sec.
160- 71.1 -0 sec.
The required lethalities are achieved instantly when the internal temperature of a cooked meat product reaches 158 °F or above. Humidity must be considered when using this Time/Temperature table.
This Time/Temperature table is based on Thermal Death Curve for Salmonella in Beef Emulsions in tubes (Derived from Goodfellow & Brown1, 1978) Regulatory Curve obtained from Jerry Carosella, Deputy Director, Microbiology Division, Science and Technology. All times that were a fraction of a minute or second was rounded up to the next whole number (e.g., 16.2 seconds for 155 °F was round up to 17 seconds).
________________________ 1. Goodfellow, S. J. and W. L. Brown. 1978. Fate of Salmonella Inoculated into Beef for Cooking. Journal of Food Protection. 41:598-605.false
 
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As has been pointed out above the safety of the resulting sticks is not just about temperature - but is also about the length of time that the food it held at that temperature. 

Below I have plotted the temperatures against the times required against each temperature as this can often make it easier to understand what is actually happening.


On the graph you can see that any time/temperature combination above the line is actually safe. As the temperature rises the length of time required for the meat to remain at that temperature reduces exponentially. Often the time/temperature combination used in any given situation is determined by the way the food is being prepared. If you are giving advice to someone and you do not know precisely how the person is preparing the food, it is safer to recommend they take it to the higher temperatures (say 160 F) as the meat only has to reach that for a few seconds to be safe. If you only take the meat to say 152 F, then it is still perfectly safe providing that it has remained at that temperature for at least 35 seconds.

As Dave says, if anyone shouts at you when you are quoting the FDA approved temperatures then they are not fully aware of what is going on regarding safety, and they need to be gently nudged in the direction of the pasteurisation tables that are relevant to the meat being prepared.
 
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Wade.... Do a graph for the ground meat "time/temperature" information.... By the way, I'm copying your graphs..... points.....
 
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I go to 160 then strait into a ice bath/shower to instantly stop the temp from rising anymore. Then hand and let bloom.
 
I go to 160 then strait into a ice bath/shower to instantly stop the temp from rising anymore. Then hand and let bloom.
You left out sending some to Pennsylvania for the quality control & taste testing service!!

Just Sayin',

Bear
 
The USDA’s primary responsibility  is the oversight and safety of certain food products that are commercially produced and offered for sale and consumption by the general public. Following extensive scientific research, guidelines and standards are prepared and published for the producers to refer and adhere to. The most basic of these publications, by purposeful intent, err on the very conservative side and are specifically directed, to what’s commonly referred to as “The Lowest Common Denominator”. In any given commercial food production environment, you’re going to have varying degrees of culinary education, training, skills, and experience. Those at the upper end of the scale would probably understand and acknowledge the FSIS log[sub]10[/sub] lethality reduction tables referred to by Dave Omak and Wade, while those at the lower end (The LCDs) would probably look at them cross eyed.

Therefore, while the USDA can publish general guidelines that state that log[sub]10[/sub] lethality can be achieved using various temperatures at various points in time as shown on the tables, they don’t. Instead, with the understanding that the required lethality's are achieved instantly when the internal temperature of a cooked meat product reaches 158°F or above, the general published guidelines that are most commonly referred to in the interest of simplicity and presumed safety are similar to the one that Boykjo posted which, in this case, states “To prevent food borne illness, uncooked sausages that contain ground beef, pork, lamb or veal should be cooked to 160 °F”. With the trickle-down effect from commercial food production to production for home and personal consumption that then becomes the standard used by cookbook authors, other recipe writers, and other venues such as food related forums like SMF. While safety should always be the primary concern, there’s always a potential liability factor involved.

Tom
 
Yes Tom I totally agree. The tables are great to understand but as you say it all comes down to personal confidence and the levels of understanding with what you are doing. When you approach the recognised safe cooking temperatures the times required at these temperatures actually vary relatively little - e.g. at 160 F it is instant but at 152 F it only needs to be there for 30 seconds, which is a relatively short time when smoking meats.

Whilst I always take my meat to (and usually above) the recognised temperatures, people sometimes do not understand that there is nothing magical about reaching these precise temperatures. Let us consider a situation where your coals have just started to run out and you have struggled at the end to get your meat IT up to 160 F, but it has actually been at 150 F for the past 30 minutes (the minimum time required at that temperature is actually 52 seconds). It will still actually be safe to eat, providing safe food handling practices have been used before it was cooked. It is unfortunate when you sometimes see peoples advice on here in similar circumstances that the meat is unsafe and should be binned !!

In the FSIS guidelines that Boykjo referred us to ...
  • "To prevent foodborne illness, uncooked sausages that contain ground beef, pork, lamb or veal should  be cooked to 160 °F. Uncooked sausages that contain ground turkey and chicken should  be cooked to 165 °F"
... the word "should" denotes a guideline whereas "shall" would be the word that would be used to denote a requirement - or possibly a phrase like "is required to be". The use of the word "should" in this context does not invalidate the use of the the tables when assessing the safety of food temperatures, in fact to the contrary - it suggests that the 160 -165 F are simply the (strongly) recommended temperatures.
 
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