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Just throwing this out there - Page 3

post #41 of 52

I will explain it to you as  simple as anyone could understand. For the purpose of understanding let's just say that I am the seller. Example number 1 we will say that shipping is included in the price, this means that you are paying for the shipping in the price. Example number 2 I say I am selling this to you with free shipping, it simply means that I am paying the shipping on the item sold. I really hope this is the end of this, this is as simple as I can explain. Sometimes retailers will offer free shipping if you purchase a certain dollar amount.

post #42 of 52

In both your examples the buyer pays the seller the same amount of money, the seller pays the shipper the same amount of money, the buyer receives the same amount of stuff, and the seller retains the same amount of money to pay his expenses etc.

 

I'm still not seeing any difference between the two examples.  Whether you call it one or the other, the result is the same.

 

The "free shipping orders over $75" type of promotion is a different creature; the seller accepts a lower margin in exchange for the buyer buying more product.  That's not relevant to differentiating "free" vs "included" as its changing the quantities, amount spent per item, and other parameters.


Edited by gpb11 - 8/28/15 at 6:11am
post #43 of 52

If it were truly free shipping then the amount of shipping would be deducted from the purchase so the price would be minus the shipping amount. There is a big difference in included and free, if it is free it is not added to the price if it is shipping included then it is.

post #44 of 52

Like I have told my son several hundred times....Nothing in life is free!!! Does anyone really believe that anyone offers free shipping and hasn't buried that cost in the price somewhere?

post #45 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleBubbas BBQ View Post
 

Does anyone really believe that anyone offers free shipping and hasn't buried that cost in the price somewhere?

That's where I'm coming from here.  The cost of shipping is embedded in the price.  Whether it's listed as free or included is just semantics.  Either way the buyer is paying for it. When both cost the buyer the same, there's no difference between the two scenarios.  When they cost different, the seller still pays the same cost to ship and is accepting lower net revenue for some reason such as a promotion/incentive/sale that could be marketed using either term..

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rileybowler View Post
 

There is a big difference in included and free, if it is free it is not added to the price if it is shipping included then it is.

Either way, the cost of shipping is embedded in what the buyer pays.  If I'm paying $100 with free shipping or if I'm paying $100 with shipping included, I'm paying $100 either way.  No difference between free and included that I can see.


Edited by gpb11 - 8/28/15 at 8:18am
post #46 of 52

Let's try this.

 

Larry offers to sell you a bottle of sauce for $10 with shipping included.  You pay $10 and receive a bottle of sauce.
Curly offers to sell you a bottle of sauce for $10 with free shipping.  You pay $10 and receive a bottle of sauce.
Moe offers to sell you a bottle of sauce for $8 and charges $2 for shipping.  You pay $10 and receive a bottle of sauce.

 

What's the difference between any of these three?

post #47 of 52

This is a good discussion but you all are missing the true point.  EBay is the scam not RT.  I am a seller on ebay for the last 15 years or so.  Back in the day you sold something on Ebay for a dollar and shipped it for $2.50 and Ebay charged you a commission on the sale and not the shipping but now Ebay also charges you a commission on the shipping too.  Ebay started telling sellers that offering free shipping would increase your sales but the truth was that it only increased Ebays commissions.  Then Ebay just started charging a fee for shipping no matter how you listed it. They think they should get a cut of the money the post office makes too.  You also can't say shipping included because Ebay only uses free shipping and Ebay inserts the wording not the seller.  You can say shipping included in your description but if that's the way you are selling it then Ebay puts free shipping on you page. Rt has to pay Ebay and paypal fees in order to list, sell and ship so that might explain the price difference.  Also when you list on Ebay when listing with free shipping you don't know where you will have to ship to so you must go with the most expensive shipping you might be charged with but if you go to the RT website you are charged the true shipping to where you live weather you are in the city next door or across the country.

 

Stan

post #48 of 52

The only thing left to say is look up the words in dictionary free does not mean included and I am done with this false advertisement is false peroid

post #49 of 52

Here's Merriam Webster's definition: "not costing or charging anything" -- link: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free

 

We all know shipping costs money.  So shipping can't be without cost.  Thus a statement of "free shipping" must relate to whether there's a charge for shipping or not.    

Just to be sure we're on the same page, Merriam Webster's definition for "charge" says "the price demanded for something".  --  link: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/charge

 

There is no price demanded for shipping in the ebay listing.  As such there's no charge for shipping if you were buy that package on ebay.  Not charging anything for shipping, by the dictionary definitions you wanted me to look up, is free shipping.

 

I'm still not seeing where there's any difference between "free" and "included" when it comes to shipping on something you've bought.  

post #50 of 52

Merchants give free shipping all the time in order to sell an item, especially a large box expensive item, in fact I purchased a smoker a few weeks ago free shipping, also purchased pellets same order free shipping. I received an email from them today which said that they would give me free shipping on any order that was over $50.00, if not over $50.00 I would have to pay an additional shipping charge.

post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rileybowler View Post
 

Merchants give free shipping all the time in order to sell an item, especially a large box expensive item, in fact I purchased a smoker a few weeks ago free shipping, also purchased pellets same order free shipping. I received an email from them today which said that they would give me free shipping on any order that was over $50.00, if not over $50.00 I would have to pay an additional shipping charge.

 

Yep, I covered that above.  As a promotion to entice the customer to buy more stuff, they'll provide an incentive such as free shipping above a certain total.  It is effectively no different than a $10 off $100 or buy five get one free type promotion.  The merchant is willing to reduce their margin in exchange for a higher volume of sales.  An alternative is that above a certain order level they know their margin will more than cover shipping costs and thus make it free or included as an enticement.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpb11 View Post
 

The "free shipping orders over $75" type of promotion is a different creature; the seller accepts a lower margin in exchange for the buyer buying more product.  That's not relevant to differentiating "free" vs "included" as its changing the quantities, amount spent per item, and other parameters.

 

This ebay auction is a different scenario.  They created a package with the shipping cost embedded and presented it on ebay.  Most likely reason it's embedded is because ebay offers no mechanism to do LTL Freight actual-cost shipping as far as I know.  If you go to their website though they do have the ability to generate by-zipcode LTL Freight cost estimates.  You also can buy a-la-carte via their website.  Two different venues and two different product packaging paradigms.  Like visiting a BBQ restaurant's operation at a BBQ festival and visiting the same restaurant's storefront.  You're going to find different prices and "packages".

 

I suppose the reason I'm hanging onto this like a terrier with a bone is that I find it interesting when different people can look at the same set of facts and come up with different interpretations.  When that happens I like to understand where the difference in underlying assumptions may be that drive the different views of the same set of facts.

I'm beginning to sense that for some there's a heavier reliance on the interpretation of the wording and less of an analytical look at the numbers.  Perhaps also for some there is an interpretation/assumption that the ebay listing is some sort of bargain deal or package representing something less than retail pricing.

 

My focus is on the bottom line; what's my total cost.  Can I get the same thing for a lower price via a different venue?  Whether a package vs a la carte or whether other costs are included/free/add-on, what's the bottom line number and is it what I want to pay.   

 

I also generally don't expect any bargains on ebay for brand new merchandise.  The transaction costs are higher than selling from their own website to begin with.  What ebay provides to the manufacturer is greater exposure.  More potential customers.  It's likely to the manufacturer's benefit to have potential customers actually go to their website to buy instead of going though ebay.  Just mocking up that auction via a fee calculator, they'd pay ebay $144.8 for each sale and pay paypal another $42.29.  While they'll pay a percentage to their credit card processor for sales via their own website, that $144 ebay fee would be avoided.

 

Anyway, if someone can clearly explain what is misleading or dishonest about that ebay advert I'm curious to learn.  I've put out the Larry/Curly/Moe analogue above and would appreciate a clear explanation of why there's any difference between the three.

 

It's difficult for me to really consider the other point of view if nobody can explain it in simple terms or create a logical basis for that point of view.  (circular reasoning doesn't count)

post #52 of 52

I explained it to you as simply as I can and I am done with the issue if you think free shipping and shipping included are the same so be it I am happy for you< I don't . Have a good weekend

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