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Going to try my first butt tomorrow :) - Page 5

post #81 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenafein View Post
 

No hard feelings, glad that worked out.  I did retract the 140 figure, in an earlier post, after reading some articles on AmazingRibs.  They said meat doesn't stop taking on smoke at 140, but they also said that meat generally has enough smoke flavor by 150-160 degrees that you can wrap.  That's usually when my AMNTS either burns out or I am ready to wrap, so it's been a good rule of thumb.  Bear says to smoke the whole way, if you don't wrap, so you're right on there.  


I read your quote of my post and I saw that I wrote "no" instead of "know". Even during the day things get past me.

 

Last year I posted the question about if a BBQ instructor was right about the pellicle formation preventing meat from absorbing more smoke past 160°F IT and his contention was soundly rejected here. Today I've been smoking a pork shoulder since 9 am. It's now 7:15 pm and the IT just hit 190°, 10 degrees away from my target finish temp. I decided not to foil to get maximum smoke and bark. Next time I will foil at 160° IT to test if it will shorten the cooking time. I like to experiment, trying different methods, wood pellets, and rubs just to find out the results to decide which works best for me. So far it's going just like I figured it would. I estimate the shoulder will be done in about 45 minutes.

post #82 of 93
Thread Starter 
There still must be a right or wrong answer as to how much smoke meat takes on after 170F. Maybe those Harvard smoker guys can do some research and save us all a lot of pellets :)
post #83 of 93

How long does it take your meat to get from 170 to 205 ( for pulled pork?) and how much pellets are burned in that time?  Are pellets really that expensive?  As a WSM smoker, I use chunks in with the charcoal and really don't know.  I keep smoke going as long as the food can be exposed to it, as long as it isn't wrapped in foil.  I figure the buck or two in wood chunks isn't going to hurt anything.

post #84 of 93
Thread Starter 

Its not about cost, but optimization and getting it right.  Think about excess creosote after 100 butt smokes etc.  You could also close the vents and make it more energy efficient if you're not burning pellets.  If meat stops taking on smoke at some point, then I dont think it makes sense to add smoke, even if it doesnt hurt the taste.  


But the bottom line is that no one seems to know what the right answer is.  We need those Harvard PhDs! 

post #85 of 93
Whoa...this thread got outta control while I was gone!

Mummel- glad to hear it turned out great! And I agree about the Costco pork butts, they rule.

As for this whole argument, ha, I'm with Bear...I smoke my meat the whole time, because I have the right amount of smoke, albeit I'm a stick burner Too much smoke, as in the thick smoke, will give the meat too much of a smokey taste (the wrong kind of taste). I've smoked ribs that came out lookin' rare because they absorbed smoke the ENTIRE time while in my smoker, obviously they're smaller than a butt, but they absorbed smoke for a good 4hrs. I really think it's technique and environment that affect how the smoker and the meat interact. Just my opinion...

-D
post #86 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mummel View Post
 

Its not about cost, but optimization and getting it right.  Think about excess creosote after 100 butt smokes etc.  You could also close the vents and make it more energy efficient if you're not burning pellets.  If meat stops taking on smoke at some point, then I dont think it makes sense to add smoke, even if it doesnt hurt the taste.  


But the bottom line is that no one seems to know what the right answer is.  We need those Harvard PhDs! 


It doesn't take a Harvard PhD to figure it out.

IMO, all you have to know is that if you keep your smoke Thin (light), you can smoke as long as you want, and you won't get bitter creosote taste. If you want to, you can smoke Bacon like that for days, and all it does is get better, if you like it Smoky. The meat will keep taking smoke as long as you give it to it.

 

However if you use a Thick heavy smoke, you don't have to smoke it long to get a nasty bitter taste, and your lips & tongue will tingle after tasting it. That's how you get creosote---Not by smoking Long, but by smoking with too heavy a smoke.

 

Keep it thin & light.

 

Bear

post #87 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by daRicksta View Post
 


I read your quote of my post and I saw that I wrote "no" instead of "know". Even during the day things get past me.

 

Last year I posted the question about if a BBQ instructor was right about the pellicle formation preventing meat from absorbing more smoke past 160°F IT and his contention was soundly rejected here. Today I've been smoking a pork shoulder since 9 am. It's now 7:15 pm and the IT just hit 190°, 10 degrees away from my target finish temp. I decided not to foil to get maximum smoke and bark. Next time I will foil at 160° IT to test if it will shorten the cooking time. I like to experiment, trying different methods, wood pellets, and rubs just to find out the results to decide which works best for me. So far it's going just like I figured it would. I estimate the shoulder will be done in about 45 minutes.

 

Pork butts are cheap and so forgiving.  They're so perfect to experiment on.  My next butts are going to be on my new PBC.  I made a picnic in my PBC last weekend, Pernil style.  It was really awesome, but, overall, I think the butt is the better chunk of meat.  I think I'm going to try out your idea and make some carnitas.  Have any steps that you've posted on the forums, previously?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mummel View Post

There still must be a right or wrong answer as to how much smoke meat takes on after 170F. Maybe those Harvard smoker guys can do some research and save us all a lot of pellets :)

You would probably appreciate AmazingRibs, they have a Harvard PhD for a consultant.  He does a lot of BBQ myth busting.  He's explained how smoke rings have nothing to do with smoke(Which is why you can have smokey flavor with no ring in electrics).  He talks about the optimal time to wrap(and why), bark formation, etc.   

post #88 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mummel View Post

There still must be a right or wrong answer as to how much smoke meat takes on after 170F. Maybe those Harvard smoker guys can do some research and save us all a lot of pellets :)

Even if there is some "research" about it they will still be guessing. Every piece of meat is different. All you can do is keep track of what works for you and what doesn't work and go from there. The "optimization" you are talking about will save you very little money compared to the cost of the meat itself so why risk cutting the smoke early and the finished product not being what you want. 

post #89 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenafein View Post
 

No hard feelings, glad that worked out.  I did retract the 140 figure, in an earlier post, after reading some articles on AmazingRibs.  They said meat doesn't stop taking on smoke at 140, but they also said that meat generally has enough smoke flavor by 150-160 degrees that you can wrap.  That's usually when my AMNTS either burns out or I am ready to wrap, so it's been a good rule of thumb.  Bear says to smoke the whole way, if you don't wrap, so you're right on there.  

I smoked my first pork shoulder yesterday and I'll post on that in a few minutes. I chose not to foil and it turned out great except I was surprised there wasn't more smoke flavor. That may change in the next few days as I've noticed it did with beef brisket, pork ribs, and cheeses. This smoke convinced me it's unnecessary to foil pork shoulder/butt. But then this was just a 4-pounder so maybe it's different for a larger, heavier cut of pork shoulder/butt.

post #90 of 93
Thread Starter 

Post as much info as you can.  I will take a look and compare.

post #91 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by daRicksta View Post
 

I smoked my first pork shoulder yesterday and I'll post on that in a few minutes. I chose not to foil and it turned out great except I was surprised there wasn't more smoke flavor. That may change in the next few days as I've noticed it did with beef brisket, pork ribs, and cheeses. This smoke convinced me it's unnecessary to foil pork shoulder/butt. But then this was just a 4-pounder so maybe it's different for a larger, heavier cut of pork shoulder/butt.

Mine was a 12lb picnic shoulder.  I did not foil it, it smoked the whole way, and I cooked it to slicing temperatures.  It made really awesome cuban sandwiches.  

post #92 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by mummel View Post

There still must be a right or wrong answer as to how much smoke meat takes on after 170F. Maybe those Harvard smoker guys can do some research and save us all a lot of pellets :)


Hopefully you'll see my post about my first pork shoulder. I filled up the AMNPS, left the pork unfoiled, and just let all the pellets burn themselves out. If I had foiled the pork shoulder I would've removed the AMNPS and stopped the pellets from smoking to be saved for the next time. For me, I don't care if the meat stops absorbing smoke after it reaches a certain IT or not. I just do what I do and if I'm successful that's all that matters.

post #93 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenafein View Post
 

 

Pork butts are cheap and so forgiving.  They're so perfect to experiment on.  My next butts are going to be on my new PBC.  I made a picnic in my PBC last weekend, Pernil style.  It was really awesome, but, overall, I think the butt is the better chunk of meat.  I think I'm going to try out your idea and make some carnitas.  Have any steps that you've posted on the forums, previously?

 

You would probably appreciate AmazingRibs, they have a Harvard PhD for a consultant.  He does a lot of BBQ myth busting.  He's explained how smoke rings have nothing to do with smoke(Which is why you can have smokey flavor with no ring in electrics).  He talks about the optimal time to wrap(and why), bark formation, etc.   


You introduced me to two new things: the PBC which I think I've seen on TV, and the Pernil style pork roast--which looks like Cuban to me.

 

I first read the AmazingRibs smoke ring article about two years ago. I found another page on smoke rings that was just as scientific and had more illustrations and posted it on SMF but I can't find it now. I think the AR article linked to it but the link doesn't seem to be there anymore. It was where I read about how placing a lit charcoal briquette in an electric smoker could produce a smoke ring. I think my posts were from 2013 and have been deleted since I can only search back to 2014.

 

Here's Dr. Blonder's statement which resonates with me because I've been saying the same thing about the barbecue I produce: "Even an electric smoker will beat most BBQ restaurants hands down." That's been my experience exactly.

 

I haven't ever made carnitas from smoked pulled pork before; the wife and I slow cook it in a Crock Pot or in a Dutch oven. Since there's not much smoke flavor in the pulled pork I just made, I'm going to choose moist chunks of meat, throw them into a mixing bowl, sprinkle them with cumin, chile powder, garlic, maybe some Mexican oregano, then throw it in a saucepan over medium low heat and add some orange or lime juice to it. Let warm up and voilà--carnitas with bark! With the rest of it I'll throw that in a saucepan over medium low heat at some point, pour in the BBQ sauce, and make BBQ pulled pork sandwiches.

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