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First Brisket w/Q-view - Page 2

post #21 of 32
I add 1 cup of beef broth or leftover au jus from a previous cook. Yes, I pan my briskets after 4 hours of smoke, cover it with foil then cook it until it reaches toothpick tender.
post #22 of 32

You did a good job with the Flat . Points :icon_exclaim: Flats are not my choice , I like the Point and all that Fat , I don't trim unless it's an unusually thick Fat Cap.

 

IMHO , you get a better , moister meat .

 

You need to try to plan your cooking time , it will be your best friend 

 

Also , IMHO , cooking at close to 225*F ( although it  will take longer ) the bark will be better .

 

Have fun and  .  .  .

post #23 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruno994 View Post
 

Word of advice, smoke that brisket for 4 hours, get the right color you want, then wrap it up and throw it in the oven to finish up.  Prevents those black circles and sure does make it a lot more fun.  You don't have to look like you went 12 rounds with a heavyweight to produce great brisket.   

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grillmonkey View Post
 

Something that helped me get brisket right was a youtube video on cooking brisket by Aaron Franklin at Franklin BBQ in Austin. TX

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmTzdMHu5KU

 

If you watch the toothpick poke when it's done, it will give you a visual of what to expect when you do it. He also has one for butts and ribs.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob-BQN View Post
 

Always love to see someone smoking brisket for the first time. Makes me remember way back when I did, without knowing much about it, and it keeps it fresh for us old-timers!

 

Still, not every brisket turns out exactly the way I hope, some of them critters are just plain ornery. Still it gets better with experience, so don't be too hard on yourself. I’ve heard too many folks say that a brisket is done when it gets done.

 

Now from here, that sliced meat is beautiful! Really, you did a marvelous job for the first time out. Congratulations!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruno994 View Post

I add 1 cup of beef broth or leftover au jus from a previous cook. Yes, I pan my briskets after 4 hours of smoke, cover it with foil then cook it until it reaches toothpick tender.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolbbq View Post
 

You did a good job with the Flat . Points :icon_exclaim: Flats are not my choice , I like the Point and all that Fat , I don't trim unless it's an unusually thick Fat Cap.

 

IMHO , you get a better , moister meat .

 

You need to try to plan your cooking time , it will be your best friend 

 

Also , IMHO , cooking at close to 225*F ( although it  will take longer ) the bark will be better .

 

Have fun and  .  .  .

Thanks everyone for all the helpful tips and nice comments.  Really appreciate it. 

post #24 of 32

In the pictures it looks delicious.  I'm still in the learning phase, but I would of thought that reaching an IT of 205 degrees it would have been tender.  I'm betting if you rest the next one longer you'll have the tenderness you're looking for.

post #25 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie94 View Post
 

In the pictures it looks delicious.  I'm still in the learning phase, but I would of thought that reaching an IT of 205 degrees it would have been tender.  I'm betting if you rest the next one longer you'll have the tenderness you're looking for.

From what I understand from reading these forums that if you smoke at a higher temp that the IT will be higher for the finished product compared to if I cooked at ~225F.  Since I cooked at ~280F for most of the cook then that's going to make my IT higher when it's done.   Hopefully that makes sense. 

post #26 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curtlow View Post
 

From what I understand from reading these forums that if you smoke at a higher temp that the IT will be higher for the finished product compared to if I cooked at ~225F.  Since I cooked at ~280F for most of the cook then that's going to make my IT higher when it's done.   Hopefully that makes sense. 

 

 

Yep, that's absolutely correct.   Getting brisket tender is a result of temperature over time, or time at temp.  Different way of saying the same thing.    When you cook a brisket at 225, it might be done at 205, but, it's spent a lot of time at 140, 141, 142 (which is where collagen starts to render), .... 170, 171, 172...190, 191, 192, 193... yada, yada, yada.  This all culminates in the connective tissues being fully rendered around 205ish.

 

When you cook at a higher temp like 280, the brisket spends less time at every temperature point above 140.  When it hits 205, it usually hasn't spend enough time above 140 .  End result is that it will be at a higher internal temp when it is finished.

post #27 of 32

You are correct Curtlow, the lower and slower you cook one, the lower the toothpick tender IT will be, the hotter and faster you cook one, the higher the finish IT will be...Aggie94, the longer you rest one will not make it any more tender.  Now if you put it to rest right off the smoker, with no venting of the excess heat and steam, and put it into a Cambro or cooler wrapped in heavy duty towels or a blanket, then maybe carry over cooking will continue to increase the IT and could  possibly increase it's tenderness.   

post #28 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruno994 View Post
 

Aggie94, the longer you rest one will not make it any more tender.  Now if you put it to rest right off the smoker, with no venting of the excess heat and steam, and put it into a Cambro or cooler wrapped in heavy duty towels or a blanket, then maybe carry over cooking will continue to increase the IT and could  possibly increase it's tenderness.   

 

Have to disagree with part of this Bruno.  Just as a brisket cooks on the way up from 140 to 200 or so, it cooks on the way down as well.  The breaking down of connective tissues will continue as long as the IT of the meat is above 140-150 degrees.

post #29 of 32

Guess we will have to agree to disagree....just speaking from my competitive experience when I am on a timeline, this is the reason I vent my comp briskets for 10 minutes or so, to get the excess heat and steam out of the foil, to prevent from carry over cooking.  I have reached a level of tenderness during the cooking phase that I do not want to go past, so I pull it, vent it, and then rest it.  I'm not saying you're wrong Demos, I just know what my experiences have been.  There are cooks who bank on the carry over cooking portion of the rest, those that do that, take the brisket directly from the heat at a certain IT to a Cambro for storage until it is time to slice and turn in.  This method will allow the meat to continue to rise for a few more degrees before it begins to cool off.  I prefer to cook it until I have reached my desired tenderness, vent to stop the cooking process, then rest.  Typically the venting will bring the IT down from 211 or so, down into the 190's.  I prefer the brisket to be back in the 160's prior to slicing.  There are many ways of going about reaching a perfectly cooked piece of meat, you just have to find yours.

post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruno994 View Post
 

Guess we will have to agree to disagree....just speaking from my competitive experience when I am on a timeline, this is the reason I vent my comp briskets for 10 minutes or so, to get the excess heat and steam out of the foil, to prevent from carry over cooking.  I have reached a level of tenderness during the cooking phase that I do not want to go past, so I pull it, vent it, and then rest it.  I'm not saying you're wrong Demos, I just know what my experiences have been.  There are cooks who bank on the carry over cooking portion of the rest, those that do that, take the brisket directly from the heat at a certain IT to a Cambro for storage until it is time to slice and turn in.  This method will allow the meat to continue to rise for a few more degrees before it begins to cool off.  I prefer to cook it until I have reached my desired tenderness, vent to stop the cooking process, then rest.  Typically the venting will bring the IT down from 211 or so, down into the 190's.  I prefer the brisket to be back in the 160's prior to slicing.  There are many ways of going about reaching a perfectly cooked piece of meat, you just have to find yours.

 

Bruno,

 

What I'm saying doesn't necessarily contradict your experiences.   Sure, if you don't vent, you will get "carry over cooking" which will take meat to even a higher temp than when it was pulled.  Venting halts that process and allows the meat to start cooling down.   When resting, it's a question of the duration of the rest as well as what temps are maintained.  I'd wager that at competitions, you aren't resting/holding your brisket in a Cambro for 3, 4, 5 or more hours.

 

Here's some food for thought.  I can stick a brisket in a 180 degree oven/smoker and end up with a brisket that is nice, tender and juicy even though it's internal temp never goes above 180 degrees.   The connective tissues will be broken down and the fat will be nicely rendered.  The catch is that it takes a really long time to cook a brisket this way.  I'm talking 24+ hrs.  Similarly, I can put a ribeye on a 150 degree grill and take it from raw to Medium Rare (140 IT).  Again, it takes a long time to do so.

 

If I can fully cook a brisket in a 180 degree oven and I can cook a ribeye to mid rare on a 150 degree grill, this shows that cooking does occur between 150 - 180 degrees.   Again, it's all a question of temperature over time. 

post #31 of 32

Demos...I actually hold my brisket from around 10 am until 1:30 or so depending upon turn in times, which could vary from 2:00 or as late as 4:00.  It's usually still around the 160 mark or so when I start slicing into it.  Cambros do one heck of a job holding meat at temps.  

Yes you may cook a brisket at 180, but you are still putting heat to it, even though it is a lower temp, it is still heat.  Once you vent the foil, stop the cooking, the meat will slowly start dropping in IT due to no heat source continuing the cooking.  The most important parts of the rest are to allow the meat to slowly relax from the stresses of the cook so that it will possibly reabsorb some of the juices and to get down to an idea IT (170 or below) prior to slicing.  So yes, you are right, you can cook at 180, but I'm not so sure that during a vented rest, that it will get any more tender than when you pulled it from the heat.  This is the reason I invested in a Cambro...I was using my warmer box above my firebox to hold my briskets at one time, but due to the fact that it was staying between 175 and 200, I was still cooking, not actually holding.  I felt like I was accomplishing what I needed to by holding it at an idea temp, but I was actually still cooking (sure made it hard to get my slices to hold together for turn ins).  So yes, I agree with your point, you can cook at a low temp.  Like I said, I don't mind agreeing to disagree, that's what makes this forum work, different opinions and methods, I take your knowledge as far as cooking and give it high regards, never steering anyone the wrong way, another solid, trusted SMF member! 

post #32 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruno994 View Post
 

Demos...I actually hold my brisket from around 10 am until 1:30 or so depending upon turn in times, which could vary from 2:00 or as late as 4:00.  It's usually still around the 160 mark or so when I start slicing into it.  Cambros do one heck of a job holding meat at temps.  

Yes you may cook a brisket at 180, but you are still putting heat to it, even though it is a lower temp, it is still heat.  Once you vent the foil, stop the cooking, the meat will slowly start dropping in IT due to no heat source continuing the cooking.  The most important parts of the rest are to allow the meat to slowly relax from the stresses of the cook so that it will possibly reabsorb some of the juices and to get down to an idea IT (170 or below) prior to slicing.  So yes, you are right, you can cook at 180, but I'm not so sure that during a vented rest, that it will get any more tender than when you pulled it from the heat.  This is the reason I invested in a Cambro...I was using my warmer box above my firebox to hold my briskets at one time, but due to the fact that it was staying between 175 and 200, I was still cooking, not actually holding.  I felt like I was accomplishing what I needed to by holding it at an idea temp, but I was actually still cooking (sure made it hard to get my slices to hold together for turn ins).  So yes, I agree with your point, you can cook at a low temp.  Like I said, I don't mind agreeing to disagree, that's what makes this forum work, different opinions and methods, I take your knowledge as far as cooking and give it high regards, never steering anyone the wrong way, another solid, trusted SMF member! 


 

 

Bruno, thanks for the kind words.  I give you very high regards as well.  Can't begin to count how many times I've read a post from someone, formulated a reply to them, only to read down a few posts and see that you've already responded with some really solid and spot on advice.  I've given up on chiming in with "yeah, what Bruno said"   :biggrin: 

 

 

That said, long story short, a brisket ramping down to 160 degrees in a Cambro is still cooking, though at a slower declining rate than it would in a 200 degree warmer box.   You personally aren't "cooking" it, but the retained heat within the meat is still cooking it and working it's magic on the connective tissues   

 

Another example is a somewhat strange sounding method of cooking Prime Rib.   You fire up your oven to 550 degrees.   One it reaches temp, you put the Prime Rib in and cook it for about 20 mins.   After 20 mins, you completely turn the oven off and just leave things alone.    The Prime Rib will cook over the next 4-5 hours (even though the oven is off) due to the retained heat inside the oven.    So, in once sense, you only "cook" the PR for 20 mins with this method, but it "cooks" for the whole 4-5 hours that it's in the oven

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