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Can anyone recommend a good book on cold smoking? - Page 2

post #21 of 38
Bandyka,

This below is pretty much csabai kolbasz (without caraway).
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/175965/cold-smoking-season-2014-2015-pork-sausage#post_1307042
post #22 of 38
Thread Starter 

well yes that's totally wrong let them know;) I've spent the first few years of my life as a little kid at the capitol of the Csabai sausage and still have some relatives living there. Its most definitely a sausage:)

 

https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=csabai%20kolb%C3%A1sz

 

Cheers

post #23 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggingDogFarm View Post

Apparently we define csabai differently.
The Hungarians in this area call it a salami.
I wish you the best of luck! biggrin.gif
Yep...we also have the salami version up here. Sometimes they call it csabai salami , sometimes just Hungarian salami.
post #24 of 38
post #25 of 38
Thread Starter 

as long as it tastes good no matter what its being called...

 

There is a fantastic video of the most famous Pick salami of course the recipe is secret but the smoking and curing procedure alone worth a watch. Too bad its only in Hungarian.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVT0HRjYC5Y

 

Takes 90 days to make it I think you can actually get this in the US and Canada. This stuff is heaven. We are not allowed to import it to AUS unfortunately.

post #26 of 38
Salami has become sort of a general word for dry-cured sausage, in this neck of the woods anyway.

What one of these do you recommend?
http://www.hungariandeli.com/Deli.htm
post #27 of 38
Thread Starter 

Yes I've figured by reading articles here. Its fine we all know what we are talking about.

 

From that list IF they taste close to the real one I would pick the Gyulai (Gyula and Csaba are two cities next to each other) but the favourite would have to be "Paraszt" it means peasant referring to the most ancient sausages made in Europe.  Which is what I made not so long ago and was a huge success here. Too bad I failed with the smoking process.

 

Here is the thread on the attempt: (the ones for frying were absolutely delicious). The secret was the best quality meet and the paprika imported from a private farm in Hungary. (Chefs are bugging me to keep making them).

 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/173579/cold-smoking-sausages-in-australia-in-bradely-smoker-need-advice-to-avoid-nasties-please

 

....and a photo of how a Csabai looks like from the remaining old folks in Csaba. (thats after 3x3 hours of smoke).

 

 

Tomorrow we are making "Hurka" without lounges and head meat.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3tl3OMpQPE

post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamheart View Post
 

I just finished today what I call a warm smoke. A cold smoke is for folks that live where it gets cold. Where I live that just don't seem to happen enough to be able to plan a smoke around it.

 

I use a small amount of water just before putting the sausage in the casing to make it more fluid and easier to load and its a great way to better mix the cure in the meat.

 

This added water must be reclaimed in the smoker. I call it a dewater cycle, or a drying cycle. Its when you heat the smoker with all vents doors and windows open to allow the water to evaporate and travel outside the smoker. Then after about and hour I shut it all back down allow the box to cool down and and start my smoke cycle.

 

I have found that if I keep the box at less than 140 degrees I never worry about fat rendering or meat cooking. Actually I try to stal less than 130 to be safe.

 

So anyway, could that be the drying you are asking about?

 

Like I said there are numerous reasons for a warm vice a cold smoke. Warm smoke the meat takes the smoke much better. I can in 6 hours apply as much smoke if not more than it would take a cold smoker 60 hours to do. My region of the country doesn't have cold weather so I have to warm smoke. It is just the only way I can come close to a cold smoke.  It will never get cold enough to smoke butter here, But I never had smoked butter so I don't know what I am missing. I have smoked cheese, but you must be prepared for that one day that is cold this year ahead of time. I have learned what I can and can not do basically, what I can't do I'll just have to do without.

 

I can do bacon, sausages, hams, etc.... remember the 4/140 rule. you can smoke for 3 hours then an ice bath then in the reefer overnight to start again the next day (or night!). Cured meats change the rules.

 

We were just having a discussion about cured meats this last week. These guys around here are really a wealth of knowldge,  I just read the texts and it sort of soaks in like a brine cure. LOL

 

I just posted a bacon thread and it also has some pictures of a sausage warm smoke which might help.

If cured though isn't 4/140 out the window?

post #29 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamheart View Post
 

I just finished today what I call a warm smoke. A cold smoke is for folks that live where it gets cold. Where I live that just don't seem to happen enough to be able to plan a smoke around it.

 

I use a small amount of water just before putting the sausage in the casing to make it more fluid and easier to load and its a great way to better mix the cure in the meat.

 

This added water must be reclaimed in the smoker. I call it a dewater cycle, or a drying cycle. Its when you heat the smoker with all vents doors and windows open to allow the water to evaporate and travel outside the smoker. Then after about and hour I shut it all back down allow the box to cool down and and start my smoke cycle.

 

I have found that if I keep the box at less than 140 degrees I never worry about fat rendering or meat cooking. Actually I try to stal less than 130 to be safe.

 

So anyway, could that be the drying you are asking about?

 

Like I said there are numerous reasons for a warm vice a cold smoke. Warm smoke the meat takes the smoke much better. I can in 6 hours apply as much smoke if not more than it would take a cold smoker 60 hours to do. My region of the country doesn't have cold weather so I have to warm smoke. It is just the only way I can come close to a cold smoke.  It will never get cold enough to smoke butter here, But I never had smoked butter so I don't know what I am missing. I have smoked cheese, but you must be prepared for that one day that is cold this year ahead of time. I have learned what I can and can not do basically, what I can't do I'll just have to do without.

 

I can do bacon, sausages, hams, etc.... remember the 4/140 rule. you can smoke for 3 hours then an ice bath then in the reefer overnight to start again the next day (or night!). Cured meats change the rules.

 

We were just having a discussion about cured meats this last week. These guys around here are really a wealth of knowldge,  I just read the texts and it sort of soaks in like a brine cure. LOL

 

I just posted a bacon thread and it also has some pictures of a sausage warm smoke which might help.

post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamheart View Post
 

I just finished today what I call a warm smoke. A cold smoke is for folks that live where it gets cold. Where I live that just don't seem to happen enough to be able to plan a smoke around it.

 

I use a small amount of water just before putting the sausage in the casing to make it more fluid and easier to load and its a great way to better mix the cure in the meat.

 

This added water must be reclaimed in the smoker. I call it a dewater cycle, or a drying cycle. Its when you heat the smoker with all vents doors and windows open to allow the water to evaporate and travel outside the smoker. Then after about and hour I shut it all back down allow the box to cool down and and start my smoke cycle.

 

I have found that if I keep the box at less than 140 degrees I never worry about fat rendering or meat cooking. Actually I try to stal less than 130 to be safe.

 

So anyway, could that be the drying you are asking about?

 

Like I said there are numerous reasons for a warm vice a cold smoke. Warm smoke the meat takes the smoke much better. I can in 6 hours apply as much smoke if not more than it would take a cold smoker 60 hours to do. My region of the country doesn't have cold weather so I have to warm smoke. It is just the only way I can come close to a cold smoke.  It will never get cold enough to smoke butter here, But I never had smoked butter so I don't know what I am missing. I have smoked cheese, but you must be prepared for that one day that is cold this year ahead of time. I have learned what I can and can not do basically, what I can't do I'll just have to do without.

 

I can do bacon, sausages, hams, etc.... remember the 4/140 rule. you can smoke for 3 hours then an ice bath then in the reefer overnight to start again the next day (or night!). Cured meats change the rules.

 

We were just having a discussion about cured meats this last week. These guys around here are really a wealth of knowldge,  I just read the texts and it sort of soaks in like a brine cure. LOL

 

I just posted a bacon thread and it also has some pictures of a sausage warm smoke which might help.

thumb1.gif

post #31 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave17a View Post
 

If cured though isn't 4/140 out the window?

 

Yes, pretty much. I still do my best though to stay within the 4/140 rule. I fudge some times but once I set something to always go by its seems to make my smoking easier. You know live for the norm but enjoy fudging with the exception to the rules?

 

If you always put on a seat belt, it just comes natural. But you crawl into a '66/'67 muscle car, I'll reach for it, but I doubt I'd wear it.

post #32 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamheart View Post
 

 

Yes, pretty much. I still do my best though to stay within the 4/140 rule. I fudge some times but once I set something to always go by its seems to make my smoking easier. You know live for the norm but enjoy fudging with the exception to the rules?

 

If you always put on a seat belt, it just comes natural. But you crawl into a '66/'67 muscle car, I'll reach for it, but I doubt I'd wear it.


Righton brother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamheart View Post
 

 

Yes, pretty much. I still do my best though to stay within the 4/140 rule. I fudge some times but once I set something to always go by its seems to make my smoking easier. You know live for the norm but enjoy fudging with the exception to the rules?

 

If you always put on a seat belt, it just comes natural. But you crawl into a '66/'67 muscle car, I'll reach for it, but I doubt I'd wear it.

 

Gotcha and agree. Have not argued but said that exact measurements on curing is not excat. Like selling acreage Plus or minus.  Shrugs :} Back at Foam.

post #33 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foamheart View Post
 

 

Yes, pretty much. I still do my best though to stay within the 4/140 rule. I fudge some times but once I set something to always go by its seems to make my smoking easier. You know live for the norm but enjoy fudging with the exception to the rules?

 

If you always put on a seat belt, it just comes natural. But you crawl into a '66/'67 muscle car, I'll reach for it, but I doubt I'd wear it.


Comin' down to taste.42.gif

post #34 of 38

Calcium chloride can be used to keep the humidity down in your smoker, but set it up to keep any moisture from dripping into the container. Introducing water into it will cause it to form a reaction creating heat.( hot enough to burn you ) If you use a combination of both cures, nitrites and nitrates, the first provides protection from bacteria to start, the second is time-released to form the first, but  you will have to come up with the right ratio.I have never had a problem using prauge #2 alone, but I can't recommend it to you as a single cure source, so do your research. However ,I believe you should have no problems, so try a small batch first ? You can cure sausages at room temp, hang them well apart to allow air to circulate and provide a fan to keep air moving. A large metal cabinet will work well as long as you provide some screened vent holes, you want the air to circulate but you don't want the air to carry along any average air-borne particulates if they can be avoided. ( or any other hungry critters.) Cure temp should be OK as long as you don't go above 80 F. Try to stay in the low 70's. The sausage you are seeking is one of the few that is not fully cooked by smoking but finally cured.( as you probably already know), so every factor of what you do will affect the flavor and texture of the final product, and the safety:  grind size and handling /processing times/ temps of meat and equipment to be used while processing are critical  for the food to be safe.    Here, mostly the times - variants ; smoke/hang-dry/cure ; hang-dry/ smoke / cure ; smoke/ hang - cure   relate to the final taste / texture.      You can set up a "Cave" in your basement , or the room in your house with the least amount of Solar help to help control the heat factor. The amount of smoke generated by most smokers can be routed to vent directly out of any source,usually 1/2" tubing, either hot or cold.   Hope I helped a little.

Kolbász[edit]

 
Csabai kolbász

Kolbász is cooked Hungarian sausage, usually smoked. The best known and most popular versions are:

  • Gyulai sausage is named after the Hungarian town of Gyula and also has PGI protection. [2]It is slow cooked while being beech wood smoked. It is made from pork, 'szalonna' (Hungarian bacon fat), garlic, pepper, caraway, and a Hungarian red paprika. At the World Exhibition of Food in Brussels 1935, the Gyulai kolbász was awarded a gold diploma.[3] The sausage may be cut into thin slices and eaten alone or with bread. They are also added to many Hungarian dishes including lecsó and potato/egg casserole (rakott krumpli).
  • Csabai sausage is made in the town Békéscsaba, and has Protected Geographical Status(PGI) protection.[4] It is similar to Gyulai, but somewhat spicier. There are several variations in size and type, but it is a spicy sausage with a lot of paprika.
  • Csemege kolbász is an mildly spiced cooked smoked sausage
  • Cserkész kolbász is a cooked smoked sausage made from beef and pork.
  • Debreceni kolbász is usually unsmoked or more mildly smoked, with a strong paprika flavour and used for cooking.
  • Lecsókolbász, a spicy cooked smoked sausage made specifically for serving as part of the dish lecsó,[5] a vegetable stew with peppers and tomatoes.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_chloride

post #35 of 38

You Mates have  some Grass Fed RibEye?   Some Lamb lying around ?

post #36 of 38
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the info. As a kid I used to watch my grand parents make the sausages over many many years ago but since we moved to the other side of the world I need to revive the tradition and sort of reinvent the wheel due to a different climate. We are now going into winter so temperatures should soon be fine. I will do another batch and report back. BTW the ones we did not attempt to to smoke turned out delicious, tested by about 50 people many suggesting I should setup an operation. Now if we could nail the smoking process...

 

Cheers

post #37 of 38
I am also looking for a good book on cold smoking. Thanks a lot for sharing this.
post #38 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by chefboyrd View Post
 

Bandyka,

 

I am reading the book Meatsmoking and Smokehouse design by Stanley,Adam and Robert Marianski,

And in there is a great chapter on cold smoking.

I know I'm late to the party but I just finished reading Meatsmoking and smokehouse design.  It's worth getting.  It really helped me understand cold smoke.

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