Bacon curing - validating the 10% uptake assumption

wade · Jan 29, 2015

Pops6927 said:
I still do not understand the intent of your experiment. Are you looking at the uptake in weight from soaking in the brine, or from injecting 10% pump into the meat?

I am primarily looking at the amount of Nitrite uptake during immersion curing using some of the more popular curing methods on here. Also to see how accurate the calculations are that are regularly cited on here for calculating the residual Nitrite at the end of the cure.

Whilst I am looking at this I can also check for any weight increase in the meat as a result of the immersion - as one of the ways that was described on here for telling when the cure was complete was when the meat had increased in weight by 10%.

It is really a controlled validation exercise for some the different curing methods used on here so that people can confidently use them knowing (within reason) what the residual Nitrite is likely to be.

Although I have not included it in the methodology above, I will also be including a dry cure sample of pork loin to validate my own preferred method of curing. There is nothing quite as satisfying as having the quantitative evidence to confirm that what you are expecting is happening is what is actually happening.

daveomak · Jan 29, 2015

Wade said:
Hi Dave. Yes I think this is very relevant, however to keep the initial number of samples manageable I was planning on all off these samples being skin off. Initial plans for a phase 2 (getting ahead of myself already!) would be to take one of the cure environments and then test the effect of skin on and off.

The other test I think need doing is the effect of brine quantity in relationship to the volume of the meat being cured. The size and shape of the curing container will significantly effect the volume of brine needed to cover it. Would there be any difference in uptake if the brine quantity was equal to the meat volume, twice the meat volume, 10x the meat volume etc. ?

Martin mentioned about 2-3 years ago, that the brine/cure volume should be as minimal as possible so the brine/cure mix was as strong as possible....

If I remember correctly, a 1500 Ppm nitrite solution penetrates more readily due to the equilibrium thing happening... faster than say 400 Ppm... Martin can probably expand on that.... Made perfect sense to me so that's my target... strong and small amount of brining liquid..

I believe Martin long before I believe most, if not all, of the "blog experts"....

daveomak · Jan 29, 2015

Wade said:
Whilst I am looking at this I can also check for any weight increase in the meat as a result of the immersion - as one of the ways that was described on here for telling when the cure was complete was when the meat had increased in weight by 10%.

That's BS......   Someone was guessing....

The size of the molecules.... the shape of the molecules....   their polarity.... and their density....    etc.   all determine the "speed" at which equilibrium takes place...   the same can be seen in an expensive drink at the bar....   different separations in a drink from different booze... that's why fresh water floats on top of salt water.... cold water "sinks" and warm water "floats"...

Some molecules move fast..... some move slow......    Like the statement in overhauling bellies in a brine solution....   the salt has tendency to "sink" toward the bottom of the vat, while the sodium nitrite "tends" to float toward the top... and thus, overhauling should be done ...

The brine has to work it's way through a network of muscle tissue... The tissue acts as a filter....   molecular sieve so to speak...

diggingdogfarm · Jan 29, 2015

DaveOmak said:
Wade said:

Hi Dave. Yes I think this is very relevant, however to keep the initial number of samples manageable I was planning on all off these samples being skin off. Initial plans for a phase 2 (getting ahead of myself already!) would be to take one of the cure environments and then test the effect of skin on and off.
The other test I think need doing is the effect of brine quantity in relationship to the volume of the meat being cured. The size and shape of the curing container will significantly effect the volume of brine needed to cover it. Would there be any difference in uptake if the brine quantity was equal to the meat volume, twice the meat volume, 10x the meat volume etc. ?

Click to expand...

Martin mentioned about 2-3 years ago, that the brine/cure volume should be as minimal as possible so the brine/cure mix was as strong as possible....
If I remember correctly, a 1500 Ppm nitrite solution penetrates more readily due to the equilibrium thing happening... faster than say 400 Ppm... Martin can probably expand on that.... Made perfect sense to me so that's my target... strong and small amount of brining liquid..
I believe Martin long before I believe most, if not all, of the "blog experts"....

That applies only to the small-batch equilibrium brine method that I've described elsewhere on the forum.

Now, about some other comments in this thread, I'm very concerned with some of the confusion that persists, without a doubt it's going to lead to problems in the future.
I can't emphasize enough the importance of closely studying applicable parts of the Code of Federal Regulations, Food Standards and Labeling
Policy Book, Processing Inspectors' Calculations Handbook, etc.

wade · Jan 29, 2015

DiggingDogFarm said:
That applies only to the small-batch equilibrium brine method that I've described elsewhere on the forum.

Now, about some other comments in this thread, I'm very concerned with some of the confusion that persists, without a doubt it's going to lead to problems in the future.
I can't emphasize enough the importance of closely studying applicable parts of the Code of Federal Regulations, Food Standards and Labeling
Policy Book, Processing Inspectors' Calculations Handbook, etc.

I agree Martin that it is important to understand these. Which areas of confusion and problems do you see arising so that we can try to address them in advance.

chef jimmyj · Jan 29, 2015

" the salt has tendency to "sink" toward the bottom of the vat, while the sodium nitrite "tends" to float toward the top... and thus, overhauling should be done ... "

Dave, can you provide some more detail and a link where I can get more info on this? College Chemistry was a LONG time ago but the whole bases of Diffusion is that Salt will move from an area of high concentration to one that is lower or non-existent to reach equilibrium. This rate of diffusion ( Flux ) in water will vary by the concentration, high concentration can result in ion collisions slowing the process slightly, low concentration ions move in virtually a straight line to the area of lowest concentration thus diffuse at a faster rate. Lastly heating the solution increases the speed of diffusion. Once eguilibrium is reached we have by definition no net flux or no steady movement between concentrations. However since we mix brines these processes are irrelevant. The ions of dissolved Sodium Nitrite will act in a similar manner. While flux does not have to be a steady zero once equilibrium is reached, the molecules can move within the water if for any reason the concentration changes, moving into the meat , however the Net Flux must be zero, any changes will equalize to maintain the same overall concentration, equilibrium is maintained. Is this incorrect? Thanks...JJ

http://michaeldmann.net/mann1.html

daveomak · Jan 29, 2015

Wade, I found the brine ratio to meat thing......
[h3]How Much Brine[/h3]
You have to cover the meats and a lot of brine will be wasted if you cure only 1 chicken in a 55 gallon drum. A basic rule of thumb dictates that the amount of brine should come to about 40-50% in relation to the weight of the meat. For 1.0 lb of meat use 0.4-0.5 lb of brine. Try to use a container whose size and shape will accommodate the meat piece snugly in order to use as little brine as possible.

Many professionals use the following weight ratio: from 30% to 40% of water to 100% of meat. That means that for 1 kg (2.2 lbs) of meat we add 0.4 liters (400 mg) of water. Then you choose the strength of the brine and keep on adding salt checking the reading with a salinometer. Let’s say you want to cure two pork butts that weigh 10 pounds in total. A typical figure is to use 40% of water in relation to the weight of meat.

JJ, I'm looking..... been at it for some time.... I do know it was related to home brine curing techniques as "Commercial" techniques involve stitch pumping and it is not necessary to "overhaul" when stitch pumping is used.... only when 45 days type brining is happening.....

chef jimmyj · Jan 29, 2015

Dave, Thanks for taking the time to research this. I see the point of overhauling as meat laying on meat does not have good contact with the brine and moving things around will expose all surfaces equally. I just never heard of dissolved Salt settling to the bottom of the container. If this was true then there would be no need for multi-billion dollar Desalination Facilities as it would be a lot cheaper to have large tanks filled with Seawater and just wait till the salt settles to the bottom and suction off the salt free surface water. A Centrifuge would work even faster and still be cheaper...

...JJ

daveomak · Jan 30, 2015

I'm tired of looking.... so remember this because in 6 months I will run across it, maybe, and I will post it......

wade · Jan 30, 2015

All meat now bought - loin and belly from the same animal - samples cut into ~1Kg joints.
Lab is now expecting the samples in a couple of weeks,
I will have to purchase some additional containers for the cure tomorrow that will allow all of containers to fit in the fridge

I have made 3 additions to the testing...

500g of bacon skin to test the understanding that skin absorbs little or no Nitrite cure. I will leave these in the cure for the 14 days as this is likely to be the "worst case scenario"
Pork loin sample using my normal dry cure method for 7 days
Pork loin sample using my normal dry cure method for 14 days

chef jimmyj · Jan 30, 2015

DaveOmak said:
I'm tired of looking.... so remember this because in 6 months I will run across it, maybe, and I will post it......

No problem. Please send a PM when you post the info. Thanks...JJ

diggingdogfarm · Jan 30, 2015

Wade said:
Which areas of confusion and problems do you see arising so that we can try to address them in advance.

Several things.
I pointed some of them out in previous threads.
I'm not going to do that again because I have no desire to argue and apparently I'm not a very good teacher.

What I will say is, much of what's being questioned is totally meaningless unless it's applied in the context in which it's intended.

I am on your side...really, I am!

wade · Feb 2, 2015

We are now under way

Meat in ~1Kg Joints - 6 x Loin joints and 6 x Belly cuts

Pork in 1Kg cuts.jpg

wade
Feb 2, 2015

20 litres of each brine made

Brine 1.jpg

wade
Feb 2, 2015

Pops Brine Brine 2.jpg

wade
Feb 2, 2015

Sample of each brine vac packed and now frozen - ready for lab testing

Cure Samples.jpg

wade
Feb 2, 2015

Each pork cut is in 5 Litres of brine which in these containers was "just enough to cover it".

Loin in Brine 1.jpg

wade
Feb 2, 2015

Belly in Brine 1.jpg

wade
Feb 2, 2015

Some of the containers in the fridge as it was being loaded.

Cure in Fridge.jpg

wade
Feb 2, 2015

Two additional samples also in the brines. These are just the skin. These will be left in for the full 14 days to see how much of the cure is taken up.

Nothing to do now for the next 7 days except poke them occasionally...

Below are the lab notes so far.

Brine	Meat	Days	Brine Volume	In Date	In Weight	Out Date	Out Weight	Sample#	Sample weight (g)
None	Loin	0	0	22/02/2015	176 g			1	176 g
None	Belly	0	0	22/02/2015	169 g			2	169 g

1	Loin	7	5 Litres	22/02/2015	977 g			3
1	Loin	14	5 Litres	22/02/2015	1096 g			4
1	Belly	7	5 Litres	22/02/2015	1061 g			5
1	Belly	14	5 Litres	22/02/2015	997 g			6
2	Loin	7	5 Litres	22/02/2015	896 g			7
2	Loin	14	5 Litres	22/02/2015	930 g			8
2	Belly	7	5 Litres	22/02/2015	1086 g			9
2	Belly	14	5 Litres	22/02/2015	1026 g			10

Dry	Loin	10						11
Dry	Belly	10						12

1	Brine 1			22/02/2015				13
2	Brine 2			22/02/2015				14

1	Skin	14	1 Litrre	22/02/2015				15
2	Skin	14	1 Litre	22/02/2015				16

pops6927 · Feb 2, 2015

Using nothing to weigh it down to keep it immersed?

wade · Feb 3, 2015

Pops6927 said:
Using nothing to weigh it down to keep it immersed?

What would you suggest Pops? I could try a small plate or maybe fabricate something that fits in the lid.

wade · Feb 3, 2015

Sorted

. The individual portion ceramic quiche dishes work perfectly rested on top of the meat. I will also turn the meat daily in the brine.

pops6927 · Feb 3, 2015

I use half-full ziploc bags of water (fill it half full and squeeze most the air out, very simple, effective and sanitary).

DanMcG · Feb 4, 2015

Thanks for taking the time to run this experiment Wade, It will be interesting to see what the results yield.

wade · Feb 5, 2015

Whilst testing the immersion brine I am also lab testing my usual dry cure method.

Pork Loin - 1,008g - 3.2g Cure#1, 22g Salt, 22g Sugar = 198 Ppm Nitrite

Belly Pork - 888g - 2.8g Cure#1, 19.4g salt, 19.5g Sugar = 197 Ppm Nitrite

Cure time 10 days

Dry cure.jpg

wade
Feb 5, 2015

wade · Feb 9, 2015

First batches are now out after 7 days in the brine.

Cloudy brine after 7 days.jpg

wade
Feb 9, 2015

The brines all look slightly murky however it still looked fresh and had no obvious smell

Before and after...

Loin in Brine 1.jpg

wade
Feb 9, 2015

Brine 1 Loin 7 days.jpg

wade
Feb 9, 2015

The brine used for the belly stayed noticably clearer than the brine with the loin. Below is the belly brine after 7 days

Brine 2 Belly 7 days.jpg

wade
Feb 9, 2015

The joints were rinsed and patted dry before weighing. They were then labelled and put on wire racks ready to equalise in the fridge. I will let them rest for 5 days before slicing and sampling.

Resting after 7 days.jpg

wade
Feb 9, 2015

Samples of each of the belly brines were also taken to be analysed - these were vac packed and frozen

With each brine the weight increases were similar however they varied significantly between meat cuts. Both loins showed an increase in weight of ~7% whereas the bellys increased between 11.5% and 13.75%

Brine	Meat	Days	In Date	In Weight g	Out Date	Out Weight g	% Increase
1	Loin	7	02/02/2015	977	09/02/2015	1050	7.47
1	Belly	7	02/02/2015	1061	09/02/2015	1186	11.78
2	Loin	7	02/02/2015	896	09/02/2015	959	7.03
2	Belly	7	02/02/2015	1086	09/02/2015	1235	13.72

Next update in 7 days.

Bacon curing - validating the 10% uptake assumption

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