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Prague Powder #1 - Page 3

post #41 of 55
The 10% pick-up is just an average, actual pick-up may be more or less than that.
post #42 of 55
You bet it can. That's my point. Can it be 44%?
post #43 of 55
No, not that much.
The only way to know for sure is to weight.

Just so there's no confusion and everyone understands....percent pick-up is the total amount of brine solution absorbed by
the cured product in relation weight.
Edited by DiggingDogFarm - 1/18/15 at 2:03pm
post #44 of 55
If the pickup is over 11.75% the nitrite level will exceed the 200ppm limit. Won't be wise the advise the OP his brine might be unsafe?
post #45 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicsmoke View Post

If the pickup is over 11.75% the nitrite level will exceed the 200ppm limit. Won't be wise the advise the OP his brine might be unsafe?

Appreciate the concern.  Here is another link that confirms that 4 oz per gallon is safe. 

 

http://www.sausagemaker.com/productdocs/Breakdown_of_Nitrite_Level_in_Brine_with_InstaCure_%28Imperial%29.pdf

 

Also, take a looks at pops recipe again.  It agrees that ~4 oz is the max.  

post #46 of 55
Unsafe or MAY, possibly, exceed the government limit (for commercial products) by a little bit?
As I said above, the only way to know for sure is to weigh...I'm not going to guess one way or the other.
If he knows the start weight of the meat he can check at any time.

That's why attention to detail and keeping good notes is good idea....for piece of mind, if no other reason.
post #47 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjp1991 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicsmoke View Post

If the pickup is over 11.75% the nitrite level will exceed the 200ppm limit. Won't be wise the advise the OP his brine might be unsafe?
Appreciate the concern.  Here is another link that confirms that 4 oz per gallon is safe. 

http://www.sausagemaker.com/productdocs/Breakdown_of_Nitrite_Level_in_Brine_with_InstaCure_%28Imperial%29.pdf

Also, take a looks at pops recipe again.  It agrees that ~4 oz is the max.  

You're not understanding in-going nitrite, and neither does that SausageMaker, apparently.
There are serious errors in that PDF.

See this thread from a couple years ago... http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/137916/who-can-spot-the-errors

Again folks, only use the formula I posted above to calculate IN-GOING nitrite.
post #48 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggingDogFarm View Post


You're not understanding in-going nitrite, and neither does that SausageMaker, apparently.
There are serious errors in that PDF.

See this thread from a couple years ago... http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/137916/who-can-spot-the-errors

Again folks, only use the formula I posted above to calculate IN-GOING nitrite.

yes, this calculation does not take into consideration the total weight of the brine.  However, since the brine is actually heavier, when you add the sugar which dissolves, etc. the PPM goes down.  This is just a ballpark to show its still under 200 PPM.  

 

Have also cross checked against the USDA manual and come up with below the 200 PPM max. 

 

Method One
The first method assumes that the meat or poultry absorbs not more than the level of
nitrite in the cover pickle. Hence, the calculation for nitrite is based on the green weight
of the meat or poultry (as is the case with pumped products), but uses percent pick-up as
the percent pump. The percent pick-up is the total amount of cover pickle absorbed by
the meat or poultry. It is used in the calculation for immersion cured products in the same
way percent pump is used in the (previous) calculation for pumped products.
< Calculation Formula (using % pick-up)
(lb nitrite × % pick-up × 1,000,000)/lb pickle or brine = PPM

 

Page 22 http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPPDE/rdad/FSISDirectives/7620-3.pdf 

 

Again, appreciate your initial calculations.  Feeling pretty confident things will be alright.  Will post from the ER if they are not. :icon_smile:

post #49 of 55
In other words, they're not doing it correctly. which makes the PDF worthless.
post #50 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggingDogFarm View Post

Unsafe or MAY, possibly, exceed the government limit (for commercial products) by a little bit?
As I said above, the only way to know for sure is to weigh...I'm not going to guess one way or the other.
If he knows the start weight of the meat he can check at any time.

That's why attention to detail and keeping good notes is good idea....for piece of mind, if no other reason.
By a little bit? How do you know that? How do you know how thick is his brisket, how long he will brine it, temmperature, etc? If pops brine gives meat with 120ppm that is 44% pick up.
So, yeah, much higher pick up is possible.

I guess safe recipe around here means you won't die if you eat this meat. You might get colon cancer later on but hey...will deal with that then.
post #51 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicsmoke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggingDogFarm View Post

Unsafe or MAY, possibly, exceed the government limit (for commercial products) by a little bit?
As I said above, the only way to know for sure is to weigh...I'm not going to guess one way or the other.
If he knows the start weight of the meat he can check at any time.

That's why attention to detail and keeping good notes is good idea....for piece of mind, if no other reason.
By a little bit? How do you know that? How do you know how thick is his brisket, how long he will brine it, temmperature, etc? If pops brine gives meat with 120ppm that is 44% pick up.
So, yeah, much higher pick up is possible.

I guess safe recipe around here means you won't die if you eat this meat. You might get colon cancer later on but hey...will deal with that then.

icon_eek.gif

Sorry, but you're just not understanding this.
I strongly recommend that you get a GOOD book and do some studying so that you don't worry yourself so much!!!!!
post #52 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggingDogFarm View Post

icon_eek.gif

Sorry, but you're just not understanding this.
I strongly recommend that you get a GOOD book and do some studying so that you don't worry yourself so much!!!!!
Yeah...that's not it. Osmosis works the same whether I (or you) understand it or not.

You admited yourself you have no clue how much his nitrite level will be.
post #53 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicsmoke View Post

Yeah...that's not it. Osmosis works the same whether I (or you) understand it or not.

head-wall.gif

Again, PLEASE do some studying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atomicsmoke View Post

You admited yourself you have no clue how much his nitrite level will be.

I knew early on that this thread was headed for the crapper.
I posted HOW to calculate IN-GOING nitrite...it's up to you or whoever to do the calculations for your particular situation....it's right there in black and white.
PLEASE read ALL that I posted above!
It's also up to YOU to fully understand what you're doing when you cure meat and PLEASE don't advise others until you do!!!


wtf1.gif
Edited by DiggingDogFarm - 1/18/15 at 4:20pm
post #54 of 55
Yet you advise others while admitting you cannot know the pickup ratio.
post #55 of 55
That's why, TWICE, I said that the only way to know for SURE is to weigh.

I also said that 10% is an average...a common average. ....it's used VERY frequently.

It's mentioned at least 9 times in the Processing Inspectors' Calculations Manual.

Even the OP mentioned that "10% pump" is noted of the package of cure #1 that he has....the equation is the same....pump OR pick-up!
Edited by DiggingDogFarm - 1/18/15 at 5:34pm
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