WAGYU BEEF

madman mike · Apr 27, 2014

KC5TPY said:
Hello dls1. Thanks for the info. You just gotta know this is hype! It just has to be ,right? Wagyu brisket and Wagyu burgers just make no sense what so ever. As I stated above, MAYBE grilled steaks, but I would want a taste test before passing judgement. As a side note I have looked at pictures of cattle in Japan which were raised using the Wagyu method and they look puny and under fed. The fat content in the meat may fool folks into thinking they are very well fed but there are problems. The fat content is so high because they are kept in small pens and not allowed to exercise. The massage process is because they get no exercise. If they were allowed to roam in open pastures the fat would convert to meat. Folks shy away from veal because of the way they THINK they are raised. The fact is that most veal comes from new born dairy bulls. Male cattle who can't contribute to milk production and are not of sufficient quality to keep for breeding stock. These animals are just destroyed and turned to dog food and such when not used for veal. WHAT A WASTE! Just saying! Keep Smokin!

Danny

I posted a few pics of some Wagyu beef I sold to a customer last year. I can say for a fact that these cattle are bred for the genetic disposition that creates this intense marbling. Will not deny that certain 'practices' may be followed, but they are few and far between with those who raise the cattle. The cow that produced the beef in ,y pic is actually pasture raised in Australia. It is pure bred Wagyu, bulls and cows were imported by the ranch that produced that beef.

kc5tpy · Apr 27, 2014

Hello Mike. I DO STAND CORRECTED! I WAS WRONG! I did some research. I thought Wagyu was a method of raising cattle. The term actually covers four "breeds" of Japanese cattle ( Tx. redneck so when talking cattle,pigs, and horses "breeds" have a particular meaning ). It seems in other countries these breeds are being cross bred with the more traditional breeds to produce even better beef. Maybe someday someone will produce a new breed from these crosses like Brangus and Santa Gertrudis. Thanks for the education! Keep Smokin!

Danny

moikel · Apr 27, 2014

I was having dinner with some cattle industry people a while back at this country's biggest cattle show.
This old knowledgable guy was from NewZealand but ravelled to Aust,USA,Canada,UK as a cattle judge of certain breeds.
On the subject of Wagyu he pointed out that at the end of WW2 the Japanese were eating cats & dogs. Early in the occupation Angus cattle were shipped there fromUSA &Aust so the could increase the cattle population quickly .to feed all the Occupation force. The idea that the Japanese have some super pure historic breed now is a fallacy.
Here Wagyu bulls get crossed with Angus & other breeds for the local but especially Export market. One of my mates supplied 500 head at a pre fixed price for finishing & shipping to Asia. Shorthorn x Wagyu 50/50.
We have the same fat score system & prestige marketing.
I won't pay the $, I also have an issue with feed lot beef .Dont want to bore you with my personal food politics but I don't like the idea of feeding grain,additives etc to intensively farmed cattle. We get grass fed Wagyu here that's had some extra rations but not feed lot.
I have found the secondary cuts to be outstanding ,topside,blade, tongue.I let the fancy folk pay stupid for the steak .

kc5tpy · Apr 27, 2014

Hello Moikel. AND SLOWLY THE WHOLE STORY COMES OUT. This is what I suspected. The internet says Wagyu is a term used for 4 different breeds of Japanese cattle. I guess this whole thing is subjective but when you say "BREED" that means if I breed a bull of the breed to a cow of the breed ALL the offspring will have ALL the characteristics of that breed with zero throw backs. Then an offspring bull and cow must be bred and achieve the same results and so on. ONLY THEN do you have a PURE breed of cattle, horse or pig. Dog breeds don't always follow this but that's a different topic.

WOW! how did we get here?? No matter. Sharing knowledge is a good thing. Keep Smokin

Danny

jarjarchef · Apr 27, 2014

So wagyu is a very interesting subject. As you have seen many opinions on it.

It was explained to me as the breed of cow that can be called wagyu has been in Japan for several hundred years even close to 2000 years. The wagyu that you find in other countries are offspring from wagyu exported from Japan then cross breed with local breeds. It has also been said that Japan is not allowing the export of their wagyu live and the sperm from the bulls has also been blocked for export.

Our vendor for beef was telling us that Japan has gone into several market world wide and bought up most of the beef and sent it back to Japan due to their shortage of beef due to the earthquake and other disasters they have had. Causing our beef prices to sky rocket.

As for the taste I have had several cuts from various grades of wagyu. I will say it is very good, however if you cook some of the Angus beef you can have a very similar steak for a fraction of the price. If it is my money I do not forsee me ever buying wagyu.

I do like the idea of the English diet. I would be curious to taste the diffrence.

kc5tpy · Apr 27, 2014

Hello Chef! Glad to see you weighing in on this. There does seem to be some confusion as to whether this is a particular "breed" ( as I explained earlier ) of cattle or not. In the grand scheme of things I guess that doesn't matter. We are a smoking forum and not a beef breeding forum. Glad to hear from a Chef on the subject of taste. THAT is what I was trying to find out. If the taste was that superior. When talking low and slow I can't see tender being an issue so had to be down to taste. Question answered! Thank you. Keep Smokin!

Danny

jarjarchef · Apr 27, 2014

In the same cuts that are traditionally done low and slow with beef like brisket and short ribs? Where the marbling of a wagyu style cut of meat helps is the moisture. The theory some have of leaving a thick fat cap on their brisket is the fat will "flow through the meat" and keep it moist. I personally do not see how the fat will "flow" through the meat. But the marbling that is in a wagyu style beef has the fat distributed throughout it and allows the fat to keep it moist.
Besides fat is flavor.........

Just my humble theory........

okey · Apr 27, 2014

This is Wagyu brisket I took to 137 degrees before pulling. It was tender and tasty. Took another to 200 and am not sure if it was better than a Sam,s brisket.
If there is a next time I will try pulling it around 130. Both were given to me as a gift.

Okey

http://s583.photobucket.com/user/okeymon/media/photo4.jpg.html

http://s583.photobucket.com/user/okeymon/media/photo6.jpg.html

kc5tpy · Apr 28, 2014

Hello Okey. Gotta say that is some great lookin brisket Doubt you could pull a Sam's brisket at 137 IT and have a tender cut of beef. Maybe there is something to this "fad". Thanks for the post. Keep Smokin!

Danny

pops6927 · Apr 28, 2014

I tried something similar, but it was a lot lot cheaper.... called "Waytogo" Cutter/Canner beef; total lean, no fat, skin-and-bone conformity, stew it a few days and it's still nice'n'chewy. Nothin' to write home to mom about but it was far better than no beef!

pops6927 · Apr 28, 2014

Actually, we'd used to get boneless hinds of cutter local bull beef; we'd trim out the tenders from them, then use the rest in ground meat getting rid of the western plates. The tenderloins were good, fried up thin for sandwich steak; a little chewy but definitely edible!

okey · Apr 28, 2014

KC5TPY said:
Hello Okey. Gotta say that is some great lookin brisket Doubt you could pull a Sam's brisket at 137 IT and have a tender cut of beef. Maybe there is something to this "fad". Thanks for the post. Keep Smokin!

Danny

Thanks I am new at smoking but brisket was so good I had to check for new ones.

:icon_eek:

Image

okey
Apr 28, 2014

stanton · Apr 29, 2014

I cook them every time. Sams has some great choice briskets, but not always in stock. I always get great marbling with the Wagyu briskets. The flavor is slightly different than the angus (Wagyu is typically a Wagyu/Angus cross) and I prefer the taste to strait angus briskets. I have cooked around 30 Wagyu briskets since I started competition BBQ.

If I am going to spend $800 for all expenses at a contest, the extra $60 for a Wagyu is worth it.

S.

marauder · May 3, 2014

sitting waiting on the Wagyu report

bbqhead · May 4, 2014

bbqhead said:
After next week-end I can report on wagyu brisket , I broke down and got 2 14# ers in freezer . your right , they are not cheap. and I got them at 15% off , or $30.00 . shipping is kind of insane . the pork I got is rated high like wagyu , just hope I don't screw it all up !

well , I screwed it up . not sure what went wrong ,but it was bad enough to place 60th out of 80 teams . it was ok when I took it from smoker , let it rest , then time to turn in and it was tight . tried to get enough slices to turn in , it looked nice with excellent smoke ring and all but texture was Bad ! I swear the slices were so rubbery you could have made a sling shot with them ,serious . all was not lost though , got a 5th place call with chicken out of 80 teams , having never placed in chicken before I was very happy ! my pork was 21st and my overcooked ribs got 50th , ending up 33rd out of 80 teams overall . but the brisket was a bad idea for me to try at this time, but I will cook some more waygu to see what I did wrong .

marauder · May 4, 2014

sounds like good results to me .. 90% of the people on this forum wouldn 't have the guts to attempt that including myself . good job

stanton · May 5, 2014

From your description, it sounds like you didn't get it done. Overdone will result in crumbly slices. Underdone yields exercise bands. Cook until the probe slides into the flat meat with the resistance of cold margarine. This can be from 190 to 203.

jaxrmrjmr · May 5, 2014

I think I need a new hobby......Wagyu steers! That meat looks incredible!

I used to raise my own grain fed, white face Hereford and got some great results but nothing like that marbling.

bbqhead · May 6, 2014

Stanton said:
From your description, it sounds like you didn't get it done. Overdone will result in crumbly slices. Underdone yields exercise bands. Cook until the probe slides into the flat meat with the resistance of cold margarine. This can be from 190 to 203.

I took it to 205* and it was soft texure, and put away to rest , but got it out to turn in and it had got tight . I have another one in the freezer I am going to practice with and try to see what went wrong.

stanton · May 6, 2014

I assume you took the temp in the core of the flat. What was the temp when you sliced it?

Tell us how the next try goes.

S.

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