WAGYU BEEF

kc5tpy · Apr 25, 2014

I have seen this coming up more and more on the site. Wagyu brisket costing $100 or there about. Am I missing something here? I am a firm believer in the quality of the meat greatly affects the final product, but this seems like a FAD and overkill to me. The whole idea of smoking meat is low and slow ( although I do often use higher temps ) and taking a "less" quality cut of meat and turning out a FANTASTIC final product. I know I can take a choice packer brisket and turn out a final product you can cut with a fork ( as can MANY other members ). Is the taste THAT superior?? Is this something I should try? I just struggle with the concept. Wagyu beef is "supposed" to be the most tender cut of beef in the world so why do low and slow? From the hype I have read it would seem to me that you run the risk of that beef getting SO tender it dissolves in the smoker and leaks out the bottom.

I would appreciate the members educating me on what I am missing, or not. Thanks for the help. Keep Smokin!

Danny

pc farmer · Apr 25, 2014

I cant see it either, but alot of people buy them.

mdboatbum · Apr 25, 2014

Never had it and barring a fortunate run in with the Lottery commission, likely never will. I think you're right, it's mostly hype. However, the guys on tv winning the big money in comps seem to favor it, so maybe there's something to it.

leah elisheva · Apr 25, 2014

Hi there!

And what an interesting thread!

Having eaten this meat you speak of, and both stateside versions and also in Japan; and both raw and cooked, I can share the following.

Much of the "hype," is attached to the factors of how the cows are handled (massages involved, and beer or sake being part of the diet, some classical music played for them etc.) as some believe that this lends to fantastic "stress-free" marbling or flavor or whatever it be.

(Yes that's right, you are paying for some COW to drink beer and get a massage, when you could pay for your own spa service and steak afterward even, and for less money in many places and so it's not a very savvy business move or way to eat, indeed).

Much of the practice is done, in certain areas, due to tight conditions, and so to massage the cow who may not get out much, does help.

However, again, having eaten this raw many many times, and cooked a fair amount as well; it is not my favorite "cow" (as I far prefer a good grass fed New Zealand cut of beef, as my top choice. (Primarily NY Strip or Ribeye, but you can buy their racks of anything, even lovely lamb chops, and/or whatever you wish).

But then these are just my "two cents" so to speak, and Im a gal who most folk on here probably think only eats fish! Who knew, right?

I hope that helps.

Cheers! - Leah

pc farmer · Apr 25, 2014

Really?

Thats just weird.

jeepdiver · Apr 25, 2014

Seems a lot of the comp guys are doing hot and fast, so I could see it making a difference in a 10 hour or less cook.

I did have a waygu ribeye once which was dry aged and was the best steak I ever had, but not sure it was worth the 100 bucks I paid at the steak house vs 50 for a regular ribeye at the same place. But I did it as much to say I have haf it and can check it of my kitchen bucket list

dcarch · Apr 25, 2014

Will you paid $3,500 a lb for mushrooms?

White Truffles.

Will you paid $3,184 a lb for fish eggs?

Beluga Caviar

dcarch

noboundaries · Apr 25, 2014

Basically the more marbled the meat, the higher the grade. You're paying for fatty beef, though the fat in Wagyu is supposed to be softer and genetically bred to have certain characteristics. The highest grade of Wagyu looks like it is 60% fat!

I've seen Prime and Wagyu beef for sale lots of times. It just doesn't look that appealing to me. Hmmmm, now that I think of it, with all that fat and what I tip the scales at these days, I must be a Wagyu Man!

welshrarebit · Apr 25, 2014

The most ridiculousness thing is wagyu hamburger!! It's just really fatty burgers... $20 for a greasy burger? I'll pass.

kc5tpy · Apr 26, 2014

Hello.

Leah Elisheva said:
Hi there!

And what an interesting thread!

Having eaten this meat you speak of, and both stateside versions and also in Japan; and both raw and cooked, I can share the following.

Much of the "hype," is attached to the factors of how the cows are handled (massages involved, and beer or sake being part of the diet, some classical music played for them etc.) as some believe that this lends to fantastic "stress-free" marbling or flavor or whatever it be.

(Yes that's right, you are paying for some COW to drink beer and get a massage, when you could pay for your own spa service and steak afterward even, and for less money in many places and so it's not a very savvy business move or way to eat, indeed).

Much of the practice is done, in certain areas, due to tight conditions, and so to massage the cow who may not get out much, does help.

However, again, having eaten this raw many many times, and cooked a fair amount as well; it is not my favorite "cow" (as I far prefer a good grass fed New Zealand cut of beef, as my top choice. (Primarily NY Strip or Ribeye, but you can buy their racks of anything, even lovely lamb chops, and/or whatever you wish).

But then these are just my "two cents" so to speak, and Im a gal who most folk on here probably think only eats fish! Who knew, right?

I hope that helps.

Cheers! - Leah

Thanks Miss Leah. I had read about this stuff but I am sure many folks have not. I was surprised by the first steak I had here in England. I thought beef was beef BUT I was wrong. The grass is different and they also feed barley here where we use corn. The same goes for the pork. I prefer the beef from the States to English or Australian ( and secretly I think the English wife does also ). S you really do eat some things that don't come out of the water??

JeepDiver said:
Seems a lot of the comp guys are doing hot and fast, so I could see it making a difference in a 10 hour or less cook.

I did have a waygu ribeye once which was dry aged and was the best steak I ever had, but not sure it was worth the 100 bucks I paid at the steak house vs 50 for a regular ribeye at the same place. But I did it as much to say I have haf it and can check it of my kitchen bucket list

Hello JeepDiver. I have been doing hot and fast for years now. Brisket in the 350-375 range. Most of my briskets are done in 8-10 hours. Life is too short and I'm getting older so the all nighter became a pain. I gave it a try some 10+ years ago and achieved the same results in less time. I do plan to post a thread on this in the near future but I know some folks on the site are already using this method.

dcarch said:
Will you paid $3,500 a lb for mushrooms?

White Truffles.

Will you paid $3,184 a lb for fish eggs?

Beluga Caviar

dcarch

Hello dcarch. You have a point there but when folks have or use these ingredients they usually don't "mess around" with them. The truffles are usually shaved onto a dish at the last moment and the caviar is simply served on toast ( from my limited culinary knowledge ) so that the flavour of both shine through. While I'm not paying that kind of money I CAN sort of "get it" that folks think those things are worth that sort of money due to a superior taste which you can't get from anything else.

I happen to like my beef and pork a little on the fatty side ( still working on my first heart attack ) but when you are talking low and slow or hamburger I just don't see an advantage. As pointed out above, MAYBE with a grilled steak but I think I would want a taste test from the same restaurant, same aging, same chef, same night. I'm glad to see I'm not the only member struggling with this wagyu brisket concept. Keep Smokin!

Danny

moikel · Apr 26, 2014

Wagu here has a following here I buy secondary cuts like topside to make killer pot roast. We cross breed a lot with Angus it only has to be50/50 to be called wagyu .
They are hard to"finish" with out grain feeding & I am a grass fed guy.
I had tongue a s few days ago & it was very good.
I can't justify the $ but I swap bottarga for it & get a discount.

rvial · Apr 26, 2014

Is wagyu beef somethg you get in a grocery store such as food lion? Or is it normally special ordered?

noboundaries · Apr 26, 2014

rvial said:
Is wagyu beef somethg you get in a grocery store such as food lion? Or is it normally special ordered?

Online and at high end, generally high volume butchers. $100 to $150 lb.

tbstbs · Apr 26, 2014

Australia export a lot of Wagyu beef to China, increasing at over 20% per year.

They do great business with China.Australia Priminister speaks fluent Chinese.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxGBMnPW1Ls

TBSTBS

dls1 · Apr 26, 2014

I have no idea what the so called "Pitmasters" are actually cooking when they say they're using wagyu brisket, but I seriously doubt that they're using true or authentic wagyu. In fact, I'd wager against it. That's basically due to the fact that very little of the authentic stuff is available outside of Japan as well as the lax or non-existent labeling laws in the U.S and elsewhere. To me, the offering of "real" wagyu in the U.S is analogous to the offering of "real" Rolex watches or Louis Vuitton bags at a street vendors stall in Kyoto.

Wagyu is not a breed of cattle, grade, or a specific cut of beef. It's simply a Japanese term. Wa=Japanese and Gyu=Cattle/Cow. Therefore, every cow in Japan is wagyu, the good, the bad, and everything in between. In the mid 1970s 4 wagyu males were exported to the U.S. and crossbred with angus. In the mid 1990s a mix of 40 males and females were again exported to the U.S., and again while most were crossbred, a few were set aside to be purebred. Over time, the crossbred stock has been diluted in favor of the angus bloodlines, and the purebred stock production is miniscule.

In the past, some meat from purebred Japanese wagyu was exported to the U.S. but that came to a screeching halt in late 2009 due to hoof and mouth disease in Japan. The ban was lifted in the latter part of 2012, but the USDA has some pretty severe limitations and restrictions on what's allowed.

For the most part, the marketing of wagyu beef in the U.S. has been pretty much a hoax or scam. A few of the more responsible purveyors are now calling their offering something like "American Style Wagyu". While that's a step in the right direction, those purveyors are few and far between, especially at the retail level like a market or restaurant where many buyers have no clue what they're actually getting, which is for the most part, hype.

kc5tpy · Apr 26, 2014

Hello dls1. Thanks for the info. You just gotta know this is hype! It just has to be ,right? Wagyu brisket and Wagyu burgers just make no sense what so ever. As I stated above, MAYBE grilled steaks, but I would want a taste test before passing judgement. As a side note I have looked at pictures of cattle in Japan which were raised using the Wagyu method and they look puny and under fed. The fat content in the meat may fool folks into thinking they are very well fed but there are problems. The fat content is so high because they are kept in small pens and not allowed to exercise. The massage process is because they get no exercise. If they were allowed to roam in open pastures the fat would convert to meat. Folks shy away from veal because of the way they THINK they are raised. The fact is that most veal comes from new born dairy bulls. Male cattle who can't contribute to milk production and are not of sufficient quality to keep for breeding stock. These animals are just destroyed and turned to dog food and such when not used for veal. WHAT A WASTE! Just saying! Keep Smokin!

Danny

rvial · Apr 26, 2014

So pretty much it's something I wouldn't even look at because it costs so much. :)

madman mike · Apr 27, 2014

wagyu 1.jpg

madman mike
Apr 27, 2014

a couple of pics of some fresh Wagu beef we had in for a customer last year. Brought in a whole short loin and boned it out inot tenderloins and strip loins.

Like tuna, cuts like these are best sear well on the outside, it warms up the fat so that it melts on your mouth when you eat it.

wagyu 2.jpg

madman mike
Apr 27, 2014
1

bbqhead · Apr 27, 2014

After next week-end I can report on wagyu brisket , I broke down and got 2 14# ers in freezer . your right , they are not cheap. and I got them at 15% off , or $30.00 . shipping is kind of insane . the pork I got is rated high like wagyu , just hope I don't screw it all up !

madman mike · Apr 27, 2014

bbqhead said:
After next week-end I can report on wagyu brisket , I broke down and got 2 14# ers in freezer . your right , they are not cheap. and I got them at 15% off , or $30.00 . shipping is kind of insane . the pork I got is rated high like wagyu , just hope I don't screw it all up !

look forward to the report back after its enjoyed.

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