Jumping into cheese w/both feet!
- Thread starter fpmich
- Start date
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My concerns of botulism arise when considering the handling of the cheese.... On the counter... slicing .... in the smoker on shelves that are not "clean".... a smoker that is not "clean"..... then handling again to vac-pac......
I'm not sure all that handling and contact, with surfaces that "could" be contaminated from other sources, would not be a source for the bacteria or spores from those "other sources"... especially considering the time and temp in the smoker in the perfect temp range for growth.....
I'm NOT the food police.... the above are my thoughts, and things I consider when I prepare foods..... You may do as you wish....
The toxin may be destroyed at 185 F but the spores are not destroyed .....
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Botulism (Latin, botulinus) (pronounced /ˈbɒtʃʉlɪzəm/) is a rare and potentially fatal paralytic illness caused by a toxin produced by the bacteria Clostridium botulinum. The disease begins with weakness, trouble seeing, feeling tired, and trouble speaking.This may then be followed by weakness of the arms, chest muscles and legs. The disease does not usually affect consciousness or cause a fever.[1]
Botulism can occur in a few different ways. The bacterial spores that cause it are common in both soil and water. They produce botulinum toxin when exposed to low oxygen levels and certain temperatures. Foodborne botulism happens when food containing the toxin are eaten. Infant botulism happens when the bacteria develops in the intestines and releases toxin. Typically this only happens in children less than six months of age as after that protective mechanisms develop. Wound botulism is found most often among those who inject street drugs. In this situation spores enter a wound and, in the absence of oxygen, release toxin. It is not passed directly between people. The diagnosis is confirmed by finding the toxin or bacteria in the person in question.[1]
Prevention is primarily by proper food preparation. The toxin is destroyed by heating to more than 85 °C (185 °F) for greater than 5 minutes. Avoiding giving children less than one year of age honey is also recommended. Treatment is with an antitoxin. In those who lose their ability to breathe on their own, mechanical ventilation potentially for months may be required. Antibiotics may be used for wound botulism. Death occurs in 5 to 10% of people.
I'm not sure all that handling and contact, with surfaces that "could" be contaminated from other sources, would not be a source for the bacteria or spores from those "other sources"... especially considering the time and temp in the smoker in the perfect temp range for growth.....
I'm NOT the food police.... the above are my thoughts, and things I consider when I prepare foods..... You may do as you wish....
The toxin may be destroyed at 185 F but the spores are not destroyed .....
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Botulism (Latin, botulinus) (pronounced /ˈbɒtʃʉlɪzəm/) is a rare and potentially fatal paralytic illness caused by a toxin produced by the bacteria Clostridium botulinum. The disease begins with weakness, trouble seeing, feeling tired, and trouble speaking.This may then be followed by weakness of the arms, chest muscles and legs. The disease does not usually affect consciousness or cause a fever.[1]
Botulism can occur in a few different ways. The bacterial spores that cause it are common in both soil and water. They produce botulinum toxin when exposed to low oxygen levels and certain temperatures. Foodborne botulism happens when food containing the toxin are eaten. Infant botulism happens when the bacteria develops in the intestines and releases toxin. Typically this only happens in children less than six months of age as after that protective mechanisms develop. Wound botulism is found most often among those who inject street drugs. In this situation spores enter a wound and, in the absence of oxygen, release toxin. It is not passed directly between people. The diagnosis is confirmed by finding the toxin or bacteria in the person in question.[1]
Prevention is primarily by proper food preparation. The toxin is destroyed by heating to more than 85 °C (185 °F) for greater than 5 minutes. Avoiding giving children less than one year of age honey is also recommended. Treatment is with an antitoxin. In those who lose their ability to breathe on their own, mechanical ventilation potentially for months may be required. Antibiotics may be used for wound botulism. Death occurs in 5 to 10% of people.
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As usual, I didn't find the thread warning label until afterword. LOL
I don't know where I read it, but read it I did, and by different authors too. I've no idea if it was this forum, some other forum, or someone's blog.
But they said to leave vacuum packed cheese at room temp for faster again and fridge for slower aging. Higher temp equals faster aging is how one put it.
Now as for my cheese.
When I said room temp, that wasn't quite accurate. Warmer temp than fridge would better describe it.
I had them in a storage container set on cement floor on an unheated porch. So the temps varied from 38* to maybe 50-55* on a warm day. for 3-4 hours before dropping again. I'm still leaving my beer on same porch floor, and most nights it's not too warm to drink without putting it in fridge an hour.
So I think my cheese will be okay, (I already ate some), but next time I will age at fridge temps. Period. Thanks Dave.
I have GOT to wean myself off Google and just stay on this forum for smoking stuff!!!
But of course without Google I never would have found this site.
I don't know where I read it, but read it I did, and by different authors too. I've no idea if it was this forum, some other forum, or someone's blog.
But they said to leave vacuum packed cheese at room temp for faster again and fridge for slower aging. Higher temp equals faster aging is how one put it.
Now as for my cheese.
When I said room temp, that wasn't quite accurate. Warmer temp than fridge would better describe it.
I had them in a storage container set on cement floor on an unheated porch. So the temps varied from 38* to maybe 50-55* on a warm day. for 3-4 hours before dropping again. I'm still leaving my beer on same porch floor, and most nights it's not too warm to drink without putting it in fridge an hour.
So I think my cheese will be okay, (I already ate some), but next time I will age at fridge temps. Period. Thanks Dave.
I have GOT to wean myself off Google and just stay on this forum for smoking stuff!!!
But of course without Google I never would have found this site.
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Well, I got away with it "this time", Dave. But I won't risk it again, at anything other than fridge temps.
Live and learn. Luckily I got to live. But I'm not a big risk taker, when shown the proper way for foods.
I bet I wash my hands and bleach the sinks more than most food establishments do. LOL
I put a small amount of bleach in my rinse water for dishes, Yes I'm safety aware, but sometimes, I'm ignorant of some things, and other times just stupid.
Wife will vouch for stupid. LOL
Anyway... It ended well for us, thank God.
My MIL passed away and so wife was out of state and then tied up with funerals, (plural), and sorting Mom's things in her house, along with her brothers.
So she didn't get to try her Havarti until last night.
We had a piece of same Havarti from same store, not smoked, and the one I had smoked. She couldn't believe the difference. She Loved the stuff!
I got a couple of bites, but she is taking the rest up to her mom's house to share with her step dad and brother this week.
(They are still going through things) Death is stressful on the living. Say a prayer for her please.
We also had a small piece of "Smoked" Tillamook Cheddar from same shop, to compare. Home smoked beat them hands down, even thought theirs had aged much longer than mine.
PS> She has forgiven me for smoking her Havarti on the day she was planning on eating it. LOL
Live and learn. Luckily I got to live. But I'm not a big risk taker, when shown the proper way for foods.
I bet I wash my hands and bleach the sinks more than most food establishments do. LOL
I put a small amount of bleach in my rinse water for dishes, Yes I'm safety aware, but sometimes, I'm ignorant of some things, and other times just stupid.
Wife will vouch for stupid. LOL
Anyway... It ended well for us, thank God.
My MIL passed away and so wife was out of state and then tied up with funerals, (plural), and sorting Mom's things in her house, along with her brothers.
So she didn't get to try her Havarti until last night.
We had a piece of same Havarti from same store, not smoked, and the one I had smoked. She couldn't believe the difference. She Loved the stuff!
I got a couple of bites, but she is taking the rest up to her mom's house to share with her step dad and brother this week.
(They are still going through things) Death is stressful on the living. Say a prayer for her please.
We also had a small piece of "Smoked" Tillamook Cheddar from same shop, to compare. Home smoked beat them hands down, even thought theirs had aged much longer than mine.
PS> She has forgiven me for smoking her Havarti on the day she was planning on eating it. LOL
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Hey Frank, Glad everything worked out safely with the cheese. Sorry to hear about your MIL. I'll keep your wife and her family in my thoughts. It's good to know she forgave you for smoking her cheese!
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