safety concern

madman mike · Feb 20, 2014

ill delete the confusing posts.

Not sure how to though. Little insight on the process please. I cant find a delete icon when i review or try to edit the post

daveomak · Feb 20, 2014

Mike.... New idea.... Just make a bold big note you are using Canadian cure that is 5% sodium Nitrite......

We have folks that read these threads etc. on facebook and from google searches that don't know squat when it come to curing... At times they take stuff as fact and they don't know the difference....

Click on the pencil at the lower left of the post and that allows you to edit anything you want.....

madman mike · Feb 20, 2014

Ill have to do that. I tried the editing option on all my posts in this thread before i asked for help but there is no delete option that i can find.

daveomak · Feb 20, 2014

Excellent...... Thank you very much...... Dave

zalbar · Feb 24, 2014

Recipes that use volume instead of weight make my skin itch. So many variables by volume.

texaxe · Feb 24, 2014

Yes. The more that I do this, I realize a really good scale and an accurate thermometer are essential to produce a high quality product that is safe. That being said, there are probably liots of guys on this forum that can give you an accurate meat temp by feeling the density of the meat. I am not there yet. But when measuring nitrites or nitrates , I will use a scale, this recipe showed the potential danger of measuring using a teaspoon. Lets see, did they mean a heaping teaspoon or a level teaspoon?

Thanks for your post.

wade · Feb 24, 2014

Zalbar said:
Recipes that use volume instead of weight make my skin itch. So many variables by volume.

Yes especially when converting volumes internationally. Not so bad on the smaller volumes as spoons and cups are usually similar enough but when you get into fluid ounces, pints and gallons the volumes vary a lot.

In the UK and the US the fluid ounce is roughly the same size (the UK Fluid Ounce is 1.04 times the US Fluid Ounce) however when recipes call for Pints or Quarts then we can get into real trouble. In the US there are 16 Fluid Ounces in one pint whereas in the UK there are 20. This means that if the US recipe uses anything measured in Pints, unless you adjust for the difference, with a "pint" you will be adding 25% more volume in the UK than in the US. When using international recipes to create required brine concentrations for instance this will make a significant difference.

madman mike · Feb 24, 2014

Wade said:
Yes especially when converting volumes internationally. Not so bad on the smaller volumes as spoons and cups are usually similar enough but when you get into fluid ounces, pints and gallons the volumes vary a lot.

In the UK and the US the fluid ounce is roughly the same size (the UK Fluid Ounce is 1.04 times the US Fluid Ounce) however when recipes call for Pints or Quarts then we can get into real trouble. In the US there are 16 Fluid Ounces in one pint whereas in the UK there are 20. This means that if the US recipe uses anything measured in Pints, unless you adjust for the difference, with a "pint" you will be adding 25% more volume in the UK than in the US. When using international recipes to create required brine concentrations for instance this will make a significant difference.

that's why I prefer ordering a pint in the UK!!!

bigwheel · Feb 26, 2014

Never got around to using cure on jerky. What does that supposed to do for it? Thanks.

madman mike · Feb 26, 2014

as long as you use the appropriate amount of salt and the jerky is dehydrated enough you will be fine. the color will be greyish/brown instead of red.

store larger quantity in the freezer and pull out what you will eat within several days.

Many people make jerky without cure and it is fine. I would highly recommend you do not omit cure when making smoked sausages or larger full muscle smoked meats, such as pastrami or ham.

daveomak · Feb 26, 2014

bigwheel said:
Never got around to using cure on jerky. What does that supposed to do for it? Thanks.

Cure stops any chance of botulism.... I just read, that since the additions of nitrite and/or nitrate in smoking/curing meats, there has not been one case of botulism reported in smoked meats.... :dunno

bigwheel · Feb 26, 2014

Gotcha on that thanks. That botulism is nasty. Have you seen Goldie Hawn's lips lately? She went in for botulism aka botox injections and come out looking like Kareem Abdul Jabber or something. Cure sounds like a good plan for the ground meat jerky shooter crowd..but need some additional input on why it be needed on strips of solid meat. What am I missing here? Not sure being red on the inside would be that advantageous. Sounds like a good excuse for some old widder lady to start screaming its raw or something. We refuse to even buy cured bacon and lunch meat etc. We are health conscious..lol. Nitrates cause a person to get a big old Cancer seems like.

daveomak · Feb 26, 2014

bigwheel said:
Gotcha on that thanks. That botulism is nasty. Have you seen Goldie Hawn's lips lately? She went in for botulism aka botox injections and come out looking like Kareem Abdul Jabber or something. Cure sounds like a good plan for the ground meat jerky shooter crowd..but need some additional input on why it be needed on strips of solid meat. What am I missing here? Not sure being red on the inside would be that advantageous. Sounds like a good excuse for some old widder lady to start screaming its raw or something. We refuse to even buy cured bacon and lunch meat etc. We are health conscious..lol. Nitrates cause a person to get a big old Cancer seems like.

If you refuse to buy bacon and lunch meat that has nitrites in it... There is no point in discussing botulism.....

Oh, by the way, google nitrates in garden vegetables..... bacon has less than 120 Ppm nitrites in it and the USDA does NOT allow nitrates in bacon.....

madman mike · Feb 26, 2014

bigwheel said:
Gotcha on that thanks. That botulism is nasty. Have you seen Goldie Hawn's lips lately? She went in for botulism aka botox injections and come out looking like Kareem Abdul Jabber or something. Cure sounds like a good plan for the ground meat jerky shooter crowd..but need some additional input on why it be needed on strips of solid meat. What am I missing here? Not sure being red on the inside would be that advantageous. Sounds like a good excuse for some old widder lady to start screaming its raw or something. We refuse to even buy cured bacon and lunch meat etc. We are health conscious..lol. Nitrates cause a person to get a big old Cancer seems like.

using cure to maintain the color is mostly aesthetic for selling product. Grey lunch meat is kind of nasty looking and no something most people want to buy.

That being said, almost all lunch meat is made of formed meat in some way. Deli ham may look full muscle but it is actually multiple pieces of meat pressed or formed together through different types of processes. depends on the product as to how they form them.

Cure helps the preservation of the meat and slows the rancidification of the fats in meat. Salt is effective, but not nearly as effective as when Nitrite or Nitrate are used. It definetly makes the process and final product safer and safer for longer.

I sell a bacon to my customers that we call Centennial Natural Bacon. There are only naturally derived sources of nitrate used to make it. This comes from celery extract and lemon juice. It is still Sodium Nitrite, just from a natural source instead of a man made source.

here is a easy to understand article that lays it all out for you.

http://culinaryarts.about.com/od/seasoningflavoring/a/nitrates.htm

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safety concern

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