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need pid 220 wiring help - Page 2

post #21 of 33
Since have posted here, figured throw this question out there. Has anyone wired a oven element in conjunction with the pid controller set up? Assuming they burn hotter than stand 220v drive top burners ? Ttp
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonthompson View Post

Since have posted here, figured throw this question out there. Has anyone wired a oven element in conjunction with the pid controller set up? Assuming they burn hotter than stand 220v drive top burners ? Ttp

I actually use both the bottom burner and the broiler burner together in my smokehouse (3'x3'x6'6").. controlled with a Auber PID with ramp/soak feature (SYL-2352P ) ... works really well.. the reason I use 2 elements is so that just one element won't have to burn so hot.. in my theory the elements will last longer when you want to cook hotter... so far I have only done low temp (170`) with it... but I did stretch it's legs to see how high I could get temps... held 350` for a little while but the walls (1/2"plywood) were getting pretty warm.. so I backed temps down ...
Edited by JckDanls 07 - 2/28/16 at 5:48pm
post #23 of 33
Do you have a picture of this you could send? Also was the wiring difficult at all or fairily simple?
He smoker I have has two elements in it and it does okay for temps unless it's super cold here in iowa . Then she struggled so on my next build which is basically same thing , I wanna make sure I have enough bang to smoke the buck per say

This is the size I'll heating
post #24 of 33

 

 

post #25 of 33
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post #26 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonthompson View Post

Since have posted here, figured throw this question out there. Has anyone wired a oven element in conjunction with the pid controller set up? Assuming they burn hotter than stand 220v drive top burners ? Ttp


A 220v element is a 220v element, and will output the rated wattage.  It does not burn hotter.  A 220v element run on 110v power will only output 1/4 the original 220v wattage though. And never use a 110v element on 220v power, as you will smoke it.

 

Yes there are quite a few builds that use salvaged oven elements with a PID.  The PID and SSR are merely the switch that controls power to the element.  You could accomplish the same thing by hand switching a switch to a element.  The computer is just much more efficient, but in essence that is what it does (and it learns the patterns and anticipates when heat is needed just before it actually is).

post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by dward51 View Post
 


A 220v element is a 220v element, and will output the rated wattage.  It does not burn hotter.  A 220v element run on 110v power will only output 1/4 the original 220v wattage though. And never use a 110v element on 220v power, as you will smoke it.

 

Yes there are quite a few builds that use salvaged oven elements with a PID.  The PID and SSR are merely the switch that controls power to the element.  You could accomplish the same thing by hand switching a switch to a element.  The computer is just much more efficient, but in essence that is what it does (and it learns the patterns and anticipates when heat is needed just before it actually is).


I disagree. An element is not guaranteed wattage. They however fail due to over current which is why you cannot use a 220v element on a 208v circuit unless rated for dual voltage. The 208v element pull close to 1 amp more which can cause premature failure.

 

What happens when we decrease voltage ( frequency ) yet limit intensity ( amperage ) with a current limiting diode ? We decrease wattage do we not? Now lets say we use a frequency inverter that allows us to vary voltage and amperage outputs so that we do not over amp the element. We can then flip flop frequencies and intensities with a good controller so that the element maintains without shutting itself down.

post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Four20 View Post
 


I disagree. An element is not guaranteed wattage. They however fail due to over current which is why you cannot use a 220v element on a 208v circuit unless rated for dual voltage. The 208v element pull close to 1 amp more which can cause premature failure.

 

What happens when we decrease voltage ( frequency ) yet limit intensity ( amperage ) with a current limiting diode ? We decrease wattage do we not? Now lets say we use a frequency inverter that allows us to vary voltage and amperage outputs so that we do not over amp the element. We can then flip flop frequencies and intensities with a good controller so that the element maintains without shutting itself down.

I agree with Dward51 a heating element is a pure resistor and as such frequency is not a factor.

 

Since one way to express OHMs law is Wattage =( Voltage X Voltage) / Resistance, one half the voltage = one forth the wattage.

 

Heating elements like all resistors have 2 important ratings 1 is the devices resistance measured in OHMs. 2 is the maximum number of watts it can dissipate without damage.  Heating element manufactures assume will operate an element at its max voltage and give you wattage at that voltage.

 

I have never seen anyone use voltage and frequency interchangeably as they are very different things where does that come from?

 

If you installed a diode in series with an element the diode would block half the current flow. The DC voltage now applied to the element will be less than 240 volts.

 

Frequency inverter or more commonly variable-frequency drive or VFD is used to power 3 phase motors not heating elements. Most are smart enough to figure out when a motor is not present and will shut themselves down with an error code. 

 

Walta

post #29 of 33

Its been a while since i have actually looked at any of this. How about using an SCR based control. Ohh well Im not looking to hijack this thread so letting this go. Pm me beyond this I always like to refresh what i havent thought about in 10 yrs.

post #30 of 33

Thanks for the information

post #31 of 33
This question is for Jckdanls 07 a couple replies up, i tried to post it directly under his comment but it appears post go to the bottom of the thread only.
Is 170 degrees the lowest temp you can run with your pid and element setup. Also what wattage are your two elements? Have about the same size smoker im getting close to installing elements? What are you using for smoke ? Thanks
post #32 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welderdan View Post

This question is for Jckdanls 07 a couple replies up, i tried to post it directly under his comment but it appears post go to the bottom of the thread only.
Is 170 degrees the lowest temp you can run with your pid and element setup. Also what wattage are your two elements? Have about the same size smoker im getting close to installing elements? What are you using for smoke ? Thanks

Dan... The smokehouse will run as low as I set it... I start out at 120` and work my way up from there when doing sausage and/or snack sticks... 170` is the max I go when doing them ... It will get as hot as I want it to ... I have no idea what the wattage is as I just stripped them out of an old oven ... I use a pellet tube and pellets from Todd (he's a forum sponsor and also has the best customer service I have ever seen)... here's a link to his site... http://www.amazenproducts.com/

Let me know If I can answer any other questions you have...

Keith
post #33 of 33

Dan,

 

I second the use of a pellet tray or tube in an electric smoker for the smoke source.  Reason is a lower temps the main element is not getting hot enough or running long enough to reliably keep chips of pellets lit and producing smoke.  The tray or tube will not have this problem as they do not depend on the element to keep them going and producing smoke.  Actually you could use any independent smoke generator as long as it did not depend on the heat from the element to keep the smoke media lit.   This is especially an issue when cold smoking (no heating element input at all), and smoking sausage and sticks in stages starting at lower temps.  An insulated cabinet makes the problem even worse, as the heating element runs even less in a well insulated cabinet.  That's why you see a lot of the pellet tubes in use.

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