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Head to Head: Brine Vs Dry Cure - Page 4

post #61 of 79

Every Friday Weis has "fantastic Friday" from 9am to 9pm. Two weeks ago they had the whole boneless loin for $1.68 per pound. I should of got one or two because I'm wanting to try some Canadian Bacon.

post #62 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlking59 View Post
 

Thanks for the link. I have some salmon in the freezer I'm wanting to smoke. I think I'll try the brine and see how it comes out.

It is well tested on the site.

post #63 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlking59 View Post
 

would you mind sharing your missus salmon brine, thanks

By the way, cmanya is an expert on salmon. Check out his posts and message him if you have any questions.

post #64 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco View Post
 

By the way, cmanya is an expert on salmon. Check out his posts and message him if you have any questions.

Thanks Disco

post #65 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by m00se View Post
 

There are folks out there who swear that the longer the meat stays in the cure, the better is the flavor. A typical pork belly dry cured for 30+ days is not unheard of, and some people swear by it, FOLLOWED by an additional 30+ days rinsed and resting out of the cure. I usually don't rest my bacon for that additional 30+ days but I have and do allow them to dry cure for 30+ days. They taste phenomenal.

 

The FSIS recommendation for producing and storing raw bacon are:

 

"Dry-cured" bacon has a premeasured amount of cure mixture applied or rubbed onto the bacon belly surfaces, completely covering them. Additional cure may be rubbed in over a number of days, but the amount of added sodium nitrite cannot exceed 200 parts per million (ppm). After the curing phase, the bacon may be left to hang for up to 2 weeks in order for the moisture to be drawn out. Less time is needed if it is going to be smoked. Because of the lengthy processing time and labor required, dry-cured bacon is more expensive than the more mass-produced, pumped bacon.

If sliced then dry cured bacon can be stored for up to 4 weeks at 40 F or below. If slab then it can be stored for 4-6 weeks at 40 F or below.

 

"Immersion-cured" bacon is placed in a brine solution containing salt, nitrite, and flavoring material or in a container with salt, nitrite, and flavoring material for 2 to 3 days. Sugar, honey, or maple syrup may be added to the brine. The meat must then be left to hang until it is cured.

For non dry cured bacon the recommended storage time is only 7 days without freezing as it has a higher final water activity (aw) than when dry cured.

 

Even for slab dry cured bacon the 60+ days mentioned above is right at the top end of the FSIS storage recommendation limits.

 

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsis/topics/food-safety-education/get-answers/food-safety-fact-sheets/meat-preparation/bacon-and-food-safety/ct_index

post #66 of 79

Wade, evening.....   Pumped or Immersion cured bacon has a different standard for ingoing nitrite you forgot to mention...  Probably because you are as old as I am....  It happens to all of us....   Taken from your link....

 

How much nitrite can be used in curing bacon?
The USDA is responsible for monitoring the proper use of nitrite by meat processors. While sodium nitrite cannot exceed 200 ppm going into dry-cured bacon, sodium nitrite cannot exceed 120 ppm for both pumped and immersion-cured bacon.

 

 

Dave

post #67 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveOmak View Post
 

Wade, evening.....   Pumped or Immersion cured bacon has a different standard for ingoing nitrite you forgot to mention...  Probably because you are as old as I am....  It happens to all of us....   Taken from your link....

 

How much nitrite can be used in curing bacon?
The USDA is responsible for monitoring the proper use of nitrite by meat processors. While sodium nitrite cannot exceed 200 ppm going into dry-cured bacon, sodium nitrite cannot exceed 120 ppm for both pumped and immersion-cured bacon.

 

 

Dave

 

Thanks Dave - yes you are correct about the Nitrite differences. In this post I was trying to highlight the differences in the length of time of production and the different recommended storage times between dry cured and non dry cured bacon. So that I didn't have to cut and paste too much of it, it was easier to post the link so that others could read it at leisure.

 

I was really researching the safety aspects of the 60+ days that were mentioned by m00se as it seemed to be excessive - however to my surprise it does appear that for dry cured slab bacon it is safe. The document is actually quite vague about the precise curing time required for immersion cured bacon but I was surprised that there was such a large difference between the safe storage times of dry cured and non dry cured bacon.

 

I know you are aware of this Dave but just as background information for others on the apparent differences in Nitrite levels between the curing methods that are commonly used br members here. Although the maximum permitted ingoing Nitrite levels for immersion and dry cure bacon are both measured in ppm, in practice this mean quite different things when it comes to the amount of Nitrite that is being used.

 

When immersion curing the amount of Nitrite salts that are added to the brine is dependent on both the volume of the brine used as well as the size of the piece of meat being cured. Once you have produced a large volume of brine at up to 120 ppm Nitrite then if you allow the meat to be immersed in it until it reaches equilibrium you know pretty much the resulting levels of Nitrite that are likely to get. In terms of overall amount of cure being used, more of physical curing salts are used in the immersion brine than for the dry cure - even though the final ppm in the cure appears to be lower.

 

With dry cure bacon you only add a finite amount of curing salts directly onto the surface of the meat and that is calculated only on the size of the piece of meat itself. Although you are calculating for a theoretical maximum of 200 ppm, it is highly unlikely that levels approaching this will end up in the final bacon. Some of the cure will be lost in the physical process of applying it to the meat surface and more will be lost in the natural brine that is formed around the meat by the salts. If you only plastic wrap the meat during the curing time then there will be some loss of this brine/cure due to leakage, however if you vac pack it most of the brine will remain in contact with the meat and more of the Nitrite will be available to be absorbed.  Without having it lab tested, with dry cure bacon it is almost impossible to know with certainty how much Nitrite has been taken up - only that the final concentration will be somewhat less than the initially calculated ppm.

post #68 of 79
That 60 days was a shock to me. I panic if it's been sat in the fridge for 5-7 days. Can relax now and not rush around!!!
post #69 of 79

When immersion curing, weigh the meat and the water, salt and sugar etc...   Add the appropriate amount of nitrite to bring the "brining system" to 120 Pm...   The brine at this point may be 240, 300 Ppm or higher in nitrite...  after equilibrium, between the brine and meat, the meat will be 120 Ppm nitrite.....   That's how an equilibrium brine system works...

post #70 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveOmak View Post
 

When immersion curing, weigh the meat and the water, salt and sugar etc...   Add the appropriate amount of nitrite to bring the "brining system" to 120 Pm...   The brine at this point may be 240, 300 Ppm or higher in nitrite...  after equilibrium, between the brine and meat, the meat will be 120 Ppm nitrite.....   That's how an equilibrium brine system works...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade View Post

 

When immersion curing the amount of Nitrite salts that are added to the brine is dependent on both the volume of the brine used as well as the size of the piece of meat being cured

 

That was what I said Dave - just not as eloquently as you. I was not trying to give detailed instructions on how to calculate cure concentrations in immersion curing. Simply the conceptual differences.

post #71 of 79
Thread Starter 

Feeling a little hijacked guys.

post #72 of 79

"If sliced then dry cured bacon can be stored for up to 4 weeks at 40 F or below. If slab then it can be stored for 4-6 weeks at 40 F or below."`

 

 

If sliced.....

post #73 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco View Post

Feeling a little hijacked guys.
A little too much science for me, Disco. I like brining, to answer your original question....
Dan
post #74 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyMose View Post


A little too much science for me, Disco. I like brining, to answer your original question....
Dan

Har! I have gone to brining hams and pastrami and dry curing bacon and Montreal smoked meat. There is a slight different in texture.

 

Disco

post #75 of 79

Hey Disco, I'm usually late but this is getting

crazy even for me.

About three years late this time.

But now I've seen it, and learned a lot from this thread.

Points to you, for as always a great tutorial.

I'm glad this got bumped up.

 

   Ed

post #76 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearjammer View Post
 

Hey Disco, I'm usually late but this is getting

crazy even for me.

About three years late this time.

But now I've seen it, and learned a lot from this thread.

Points to you, for as always a great tutorial.

I'm glad this got bumped up.

 

   Ed

Thanks, Ed. I appreciate that. It is kind of weird to have one of your early posts bumped up. I do things a little differently now but see the roots of what I learned from Bear and Pops!

post #77 of 79

What is Prague powder ?

post #78 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moose410 View Post
 

What is Prague powder ?

It is another name for Instacure, Pink salt, etc.

post #79 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco View Post
 

It is another name for Instacure, Pink salt, etc.

 

Yes - And not to be mistaken with Tender Quick which is also used by some for curing.

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